It’s not just Apple phones….. Camera problems…. Vibrations….

BiKenG

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Sorry, just have to jump in here as there's too much ill-informed nonsense being bandied about. First off, Apple don't make 'fragile' phones, any more than any other manufacturer and also this vibration problem can affect ANY mobile phone with image stabilisation in the camera - i.e. almost all phones in the last few years. Earlier phones that did not have this (e.g. iPhones up to and including the 6) are not susceptible to this problem. I repeat it is NOTHING to do with it being an Apple or any other make of phone. However Apple seem to be the only manufacture to have made a point of warning people of this potential problem. So don't knock the only apparently honest manufacturer.

Even later phones MAY not suffer any problem as it largely depends on the actual vibration frequency to which the phone is subject and there will in any case be some variation in individual phone's resistance to any actual damage.

So, to recap, it is NOT just Apple's phones and not all potentially susceptible phones will suffer any failure of its camera system. Not to mention that if you don't care about the camera then it's all academic anyway.
 
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I have started you a fresh thread, so that your strident message gets across clearly and isn’t lost in other chatter.

I guess that most bods with an expensive phone (of whatever model or brand) with their now pretty decent cameras, WILL care if the camera gets shaken to pieces. I bought a second hand iPhone X just to use as a navigation device when testing the beta version of BMW’s Connected app, as I didn’t want to risk damaging the camera in my pricey iPhone.

There again, I also use a dedicated, stand alone, GPS device, as I do not want to drop my phone (once, in the garage at home, was enough) taking it out of the cradle and smash its screen, which would potentially leave me buggered, whilst the same drop might well bugger the camera into the bargain. You, on the other hand, are happy to run this risk and rely entirely on your phone and not use a dedicated GPS device at all.
 
I've just upgraded my iPhone and am keeping my iPhone 7 as a Nav device.

On a trip early last year, I lost the ability to use the home button, through vibration, but 3 months later when I used the phone again on the bike, the vibration fixed it. (the software provides a software home button when the button breaks)

I've since bought the Quadlock anti vibration mount for my bikes but am not going to risk my new phone.

Apparently, it's the vibration frequency of the engine, not jolting from the road/off road, that causes the issue.
 
So, to recap, it is NOT just Apple's phones and not all potentially susceptible phones will suffer any failure of its camera system.

This is known.
Mobile phones are not built to withstand the same amount of vibrations a dedicated GPS unit does.

Given the wide-use of mobile phones as GPS mounted devices, wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing new mainstream phones (Apple, Samsung, etc.) being built that way.
 
This is known.
Mobile phones are not built to withstand the same amount of vibrations a dedicated GPS unit does.

Given the wide-use of mobile phones as GPS mounted devices, wouldn't surprise me if we start seeing new mainstream phones (Apple, Samsung, etc.) being built that way.

This is somewhat misleading. Mobile phones themselves are as robust as any dedicated Sat Nav (more so in my experience). As explained above, this recent trouble ONLY concerns latest phones with fancy cameras that use Optical Image Stabilisation and/or Auto Focus. These are complex mechanical system that can get damaged by vibration. I wouldn't like to speculate as to what frequencies are most damaging, but I've heard of problems on modern sports multis, big twins and even mountain bikes, so it's not just the engine that causes the problem.

This won't affect dedicated Sat Navs as they have no camera at all, but in other respects they're just as 'fragile'. Hit them hard enough and they break.

It appears the problem can be eliminated with anti-vibration mounts. Or use an earlier phone whose camera doesn't include those features - or you don't care. :)

For iPhones, according to Apple:-

1. OIS is available on iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s Plus, and iPhone 7 and later including iPhone SE (2nd generation). Note that the Ultra Wide camera on iPhone 11 and later doesn't have OIS, nor does the Telephoto camera on iPhone 7 Plus and iPhone 8 Plus.

2. Closed-loop AF is available on iPhone XS and later, including iPhone SE (2nd generation).

It's not the most unambiguous wording they could have used, but does actually clarify what iPhones are not susceptible. It would be nice to think that phone manufacturers might take this into account in future camera designs. It would certainly be possible, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
You don’t work for Apple by any chance do you ?

Nope, but over 40 years of using such technology has made it clear who makes the best kit. However, notwithstanding that, my point was to simply be accurate in what is spread around the web.
 
… You, on the other hand, are happy to run this risk and rely entirely on your phone and not use a dedicated GPS device at all.

Indeed I do and have done for many European trips over the years. I tried a new Tom Tom Rider once, but that broke on the first day and since then I have stuck to iPhone only and never had a problem since - with the iPhone itself. Make sure you don't break the charging cable before you leave the country though. That is a real bugger. :blast

When going on a trip, it is tempting to try and duplicate everything - just in case. But in practice you have to draw the line somewhere as you CANNOT take 2 of everything, especially not the bike which is litered with complex electronics which could fail at any moment and leave you completely stranded, not just missing a phone.

Any technology might break, but we just have to accept that fact if we want to make use of it.
 
Who makes the best kit?

As far as I'm concerned, Apple. Expensive maybe, but the best kit always is. I worked for years with both Macs and Windows, but found myself naturally using the Mac for anything I needed doing myself (as opposed to any specific Windows project on which I was working). The iPhone is just an extension of that and the 'eco-system' Apple provides unifies all their products with a consistency that is second to none.

Are Apple greedy? Sure (show me a business that isn't). Do they drive me nuts? Absolutely. However they are the best - except for servers and I use Linux for that.

Do I want to talk computers on this bike forum? Nope, absolutely not. :)
 
Nope, but over 40 years of using such technology has made it clear who makes the best kit. However, notwithstanding that, my point was to simply be accurate in what is spread around the web.

I think we all get this.

I've been designing electronics things for 50+years and as a result of that experience I am no fan of Apple products, but an Ipad can be useful at times.

In the electronics design and simulation world Macs are not so useful, much professional software simply isn't ported to Apple computers. Macs are OK for the arty-farty crowd ;)
 
I’ve never understood why anyone would want to use a £1000+ IPhone or similar which isn’t fully waterproof, shockproof or dust proof in place of a £300 to £500 purposely designed and manufactured instrument which in most cases is shockproof, dust proof and fully waterproof as a sat nav?

It just defies logic. :blast
 
Each to their own and all that, I have considered getting a cheap Android phone to use as a Nav device, I prefer the flexibility that having multiple apps give as I tend to use Waze and Calimoto exclusively, only problem with "cheap" Android phones is they tend to not be even slightly waterproof which kinda defeats the purpose. For now I'll continue using my iPhone 13 Pro Max in my Quadlock with anti vibration dampner.

I've been lucky I guess that I've used my last 3 iPhones mounted to the bike for over 9000 miles with zero issues.
 
I’ve never understood why anyone would want to use a £1000+ IPhone or similar which isn’t fully waterproof, shockproof or dust proof in place of a £300 to £500 purposely designed and manufactured instrument which in most cases is shockproof, dust proof and fully waterproof as a sat nav?

It just defies logic. :blast

Not at all. What seems to defy logic to me is carting around a second device that attempts to duplicate what a phone can do better and with a myriad of different options as to how you can achieve it. Oh and I can use that same device (iPhone in my case) in any other vehicle, cars and motorcycles and is actually a similar price to (or less than) BMW's dedicated Sat Nav option. An awful lot less than buying a dedicated device for each vehicle and I don't have to learn a new device and remember how it works every time I get into a different vehicle.

Just depends on your point of view. :)

As I've been trying to get across, there is only one issue with mobile phones, which only applies to later phones with fancy camera facilities and which a dedicated Sat Nav avoids by not having a camera. A modern mobile phone however is apart from that as shockproof, water and dust proof as a dedicated Sat Nav.

Look, I realise there are some people determined to keep using a dedicated Sat Nav for whatever reasons they have decided are important to them. But please stop trying to justify that by trashing the idea of using one single device that performs all required tasks, just because you don't see the value of doing so and then latch on to this one problem with cameras as justifying your decision. There are mounts available that avoid this problem so it really is a non issue. If you want to keep using your dedicated Sat Nav, fine. That's your decision, but doesn't make everyone else's wrong.
 
Each to their own and all that, I have considered getting a cheap Android phone to use as a Nav device, I prefer the flexibility that having multiple apps give as I tend to use Waze and Calimoto exclusively, only problem with "cheap" Android phones is they tend to not be even slightly waterproof which kinda defeats the purpose. For now I'll continue using my iPhone 13 Pro Max in my Quadlock with anti vibration dampner.

I've been lucky I guess that I've used my last 3 iPhones mounted to the bike for over 9000 miles with zero issues.

I am considering a second iPhone for Sat Nav. Before anyone points out my other comments about just having one device, there are reasons for this line of thought.

I like a small phone that can easily fit in my pocket and certainly works as well as any larger phone. For most purposes (and most importantly, for me) smaller is better. Unfortunately looks like the iPhone Mini is being dropped, but that's another matter. However, that requirement is in direct opposition to wanting a larger Sat Nav display to make it easier to see at a glance. So I have these 2 mutually incompatible requirements. They really are irreconcilable as no phone can be 2 different sizes. Hence my thoughts that a second large iPhone used just for Sat Nav duties and possibly tethered to my main small iPhone which remains in my pocket (and with screen off should last all day), might just be the perfect solution.

For that purpose, a cheap used older iPhone would suit my needs (certainly couldn't afford a second new one) and if I choose wisely, I wouldn't have to concern myself with any anti-vibration mount.

Although it does mean a second device, compared to any dedicated Sat Nav that second phone device would provide a larger screen, work in the exact same way as my main phone, with all my contacts and messages etc. fully available and kept in sync. and with MY choice of Sat Nav app. There is NO dedicated Sat Nav device that can offer any of those, so this still represents a better solution - for me. Just stating that as a good solution that suits me and not trying to convince anyone else to do the same thing.

Chacun à son goût. :)
 
Sadly, others are taking note of your comments and as a result that 64Gb iPhone 6S Plus went for more than I really wanted to pay for a SatNav ie £65

Never mind, there is a similar spec’d one with a broken camera that should be mine next week …
 
I’ve never understood why anyone would want to use a £1000+ IPhone or similar which isn’t fully waterproof, shockproof or dust proof in place of a £300 to £500 purposely designed and manufactured instrument which in most cases is shockproof, dust proof and fully waterproof as a sat nav?

It just defies logic. :blast

If you look closely at the specs, you will see that a recent iPhone is more waterproof, more dustproof and more shockproof than a Garmin XT. Caveats apply - the cameras are sensitive to high frequency vibration, but that can be dealt with by using a vibration absorbing mount. I think the little rubber/plastic "hats" in the Garmin mount perform a similar task.

That said, I use a Garmin XT on my bars for any kind of serious navigation. But I do have a vibration isolated QuadLock mount for my phone when I choose to use that instead. Which is mainly simple A to B type stuff or if I want the convenience of navigating from WhatThreeWords, or Siri speech based "take me to the nearest fuel station".
 
…That said, I use a Garmin XT on my bars for any kind of serious navigation. But I do have a vibration isolated QuadLock mount for my phone when I choose to use that instead. Which is mainly simple A to B type stuff or if I want the convenience of navigating from WhatThreeWords, or Siri speech based "take me to the nearest fuel station".

Just out of interest, why do you resort to the Garmin for 'serious' navigation? How is the phone deficient?
 
I’ve never understood why anyone would want to use a £1000+ IPhone or similar which isn’t fully waterproof, shockproof or dust proof in place of a £300 to £500 purposely designed and manufactured instrument which in most cases is shockproof, dust proof and fully waterproof as a sat nav?

It just defies logic. :blast

Because the nav app on the dedicated device may be shite (I'm thinking of Garmin here) and if it is shite it won't be possible too change to something less shite. Any number of map apps will run on a phone. Don't like one, try another.

A phone is far more versatile. It could even be used as a phone if you break your main one while away if you use a cheap rugged phone as I do. I have owned a number of Garmins and I still have a 396 somewhere. I don't use it much. I prefer my Ulefone.

Downsides:
Phones don't like gloves.
They don't like charging with cables if it's damp. My next device will be wireless charging, which puts the cost up.
 


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