Starting issue

Johno23 said:
Pin 30?? What is this please? And Dr Farkoff, I’ve no idea what this is…:blast I’m not great on electrics….
Click to expand...

As Mista has shown above

Terminals have numbers

IN the auto industry there is a generally adopted practice that terminals / pins are numbered

30 is usually the "hot" supply 87 is the "load" Spotlamps or Horn or in this case the starter solenoid feed wire


85 and 86 are the Solenoid activating circuit

Usually one is a ground and the other an Ignition live (or run off sidelamps as I would fit for additional light activation)

all the relay does is "bridge" the heavier load circuit between the battery and the starter solenoid or lights or Horn, so that the lightweight electronics do not fry
 
DrFarkoff said:
As Mista has shown above

Terminals have numbers

IN the auto industry there is a generally adopted practice that terminals / pins are numbered

30 is usually the "hot" supply 87 is the "load" Spotlamps or Horn or in this case the starter solenoid feed wire


85 and 86 are the Solenoid activating circuit

Usually one is a ground and the other an Ignition live (or run off sidelamps as I would fit for additional light activation)

all the relay does is "bridge" the heavier load circuit between the battery and the starter solenoid or lights or Horn, so that the lightweight electronics do not fry
Click to expand...

Great, yes I understand now, have seen these numbers. Getting access to the block underneath the relay is now the objective:thumb2
 
I have just retested the relay, which isn’t easy as I have no small croc clips! It shows a 0.8 ohms resistance after 20 or so seconds.
I have also connected up the battery then wired across the block effectively bypassing the relay. Engine turned over!! So it must be the relay………yes??
 
There should be a little tag on the connectors in the block, you will need to push the tag in to release the connectors.
There are special tools for this but you should be able to do it with a fine dental pick or small instrument/ watch makers screwdriver.
1.5 to 2 ohms sounds high, but for the problem you are trying to solve an ohmmeter is very little use as the impedance will increase as the load of the solenoid is applied.
Try reading approx. 12 volts between the spade terminal on the solenoid and ground then see what voltage you have when you press the start button.
 
This isn’t making sense to me now:blast if I connect up the battery, remove the relay then without the ignition on ( because the red wire into the relay is permanently live) I bypass the relay with a piece of wire, the engine turns over :thumb2
However, I then replaced the relay, and took a voltage reading as suggested from the spade terminal on the solenoid wire. When I turn ignition on and press starter I read 12.07 volts :nenau wtf…
 
Johno23 said:
I have just retested the relay, which isn’t easy as I have no small croc clips! It shows a 0.8 ohms resistance after 20 or so seconds.
I have also connected up the battery then wired across the block effectively bypassing the relay. Engine turned over!! So it must be the relay………yes??
Click to expand...

yeah Likely suspect But the simplest if you have no real testing abilities is order a used one of M'works or Sherlocks or whoever and try it in there !

If you can wire an indicator bulb across the wires for pins 85 and 86 with the Relay unplugged and it can light that 21W bulb when you press the starter button then you have plenty of actuation supply for the relay !

DISREGARD VOLTS!!

They are not an indicator of a good circuit!
 
It sounds like the relay is a “bit” fucked which makes it hard to determine correctly. I will get another hopefully on Monday they are very cheap. With luck, that will do it. Thanks guys.:thumb2 I’ll report back……
 
I do not agree with the "Disregard Volts", The reason is that a cable or connector can look good until a load is put across it. it is easier to see if there is a dramatic voltage drop when a load is applied.
When ringing through a wiring loom I use a 60w lamp imposing a 5 amp load on the cables, I would not recommend this unless you are sure of what you are doing as you would not want to apply a 5amp load across an ecu.
I would not wire a 21watt indicator bulb across pins 85 & 86 because a a relay draws less than 2 watts and 21 watt bulb will more than likely trip that circuit out.
This is a standard Automotive relay available for just over a fiver at Halfords.
If you have factory spotlights fitted the relay next to the starter relay is for the spots. The starter and spotlight relays are interchangeable.
 
modern world batteries last 3 years and just give up - how good is the new battery ?, can it start another one OK?

if the battery is way more than good enough to start a mini on a cold day with no choke, but is less healthy than BMW electronics think it needs - my bike refuses to turn over at all - put a battery that meets BMW electronics requirements and it always works... had the exact same issue on a KTM,

two BMWs k1300GT and R1200GS and the KTM 1290 would refuse a charge saying battery in perfect health, but point blank refuse to crank - even with 8 amp from a charger in support. All of them 100% normal with new battery
 
Relay replaced……….still the fucking same:mad:
Just get the click. So it’s not the relay,the starter or the wire to the starter. So is there another fault that could be present which stops the bike from allowing it to start?
After pressing the starter a couple of times, an engine symbol shows up on the lcd screen, but isn’t there when you turn on ignition…………
 
botus said:
modern world batteries last 3 years and just give up - how good is the new battery ?, can it start another one OK?

if the battery is way more than good enough to start a mini on a cold day with no choke, but is less healthy than BMW electronics think it needs - my bike refuses to turn over at all - put a battery that meets BMW electronics requirements and it always works... had the exact same issue on a KTM,

two BMWs k1300GT and R1200GS and the KTM 1290 would refuse a charge saying battery in perfect health, but point blank refuse to crank - even with 8 amp from a charger in support. All of them 100% normal with new battery
Click to expand...

The previous battery I had was a mottobat which is the same one as the new one I’ve just put on. Never had a problem with that until it died.
 
Not sure of your location, is there someone on this forum with a GS911 close to you to check on the fault codes.
There are several components that have an influence on the primary side of the starter circuit Ie, Side stand switch, gear position potentiometer, clutch switch etc a GS911 might throw up a clue.
 
I’m in Cardiff. If there is anyone with a 911 local that would be great although not sure it would find it . I’ve just gone through as many connections as I can find to clean them up, aren’t many are there Any you know of let me know in case I’ve missed it. This makes no sense to me at all .:(
 
The reason that I suggested a GS911 is that it was unusual for a fault in the starter circuit to produce the red triangle.
If you had a spare relay and could prise the cover off it would look like the photo below.
When the relay coil is energised it moves the hinged armature from the normally closed contact to the normally open contact position.
It would be interesting to see if the relay is clicking closed and instantly opening the circuit again.
if manual pressure is applied to the hinged armature closing the contacts and completing the circuit the starter should turn the engine over.?

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Ok guys, panic over….. I think I’ve sorted it. I’m not sure which connection as I’ve removed, cleaned and refitted lots of them:blast but it now runs :beerjug:
Hopefully that will be it, mot Wednesday and see how it goes.
Thanks for all your input guys, as usual this place doesn’t let you down.:thumb2
I’ve certainly got to know the workings of the bike!:rolleyes: And it all went back together with no bits left over.:D
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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