Couple of questions from a touring newbie

LankyRider

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No, it's not "how do I get on the ferry" or "should I cuddle my panniers at night", I've read up on those already :)

I fancied trying some touring on my new GSA, never actually been touring on a bike before, so decided to try it for the first time with a group tour.
I'm booked up with Motorrad Tours for their trip to Berlin for the Pure&Crafted/Motorrad Days festivals.

I think I've pretty much got all the essentials sorted, thanks to some great lists on this site, I just had a couple of questions that I wanted to poll the collective wisdom about.

GPS-only or GPS plus route-notes/maps?
I'm not usually a tank bag guy, so my plan was to just load the routes into my Zumo XT and use only that for navigation. I'll have my printed route-notes in my panniers somewhere if I need them, but they won't be visible while riding. I bought a LoneRider handlebar bag to give me some small amount of storage up front, for cash, phone, sunglasses, etc.

Am I being an idiot for not having a tank bag with my route-notes/maps visible in the map pocket while riding? If that is the case then I would probably ditch the handlebar bag and get the smallest tank bag I could find with a map pocket. The BMW ones look massive, so I was thinking of the SW-Motech Pro Daypack with the Tablet drybag attached to the top.


Flip-up lid?
When I got back into biking last year I picked up a Shoei GT Air II, which has been pretty good, although I do get a pressure point right at the top of my noggin after about 60-90 minutes of riding, so I have to keep wiggling my helmet just to move it around and relieve the pressure a little. I'm usually ready for a coffee stop anyway after 90 minutes of riding so it hasn't bothered me too much, but I'm not sure what durations these tour groups ride for before stopping for a break. Also, after browsing their photo galleries from previous trips it seems like 95% of them are in flip-up lids and I'm wondering if I should start trying this flip-up malarky for myself. How useful are they when touring?

Any opinions appreciated.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
I use the sat nav. but carry a map book just in case. I assume you also have a phone that will have maps on it.

Helmet wise, I have worn a flip for 10 years or more. I would say though I can wear my helmet just about all day with no pressure points or discomfort. Recently did a trip in Europe when I only stopped to fill up on a 6 hour ride and never once had to take my helmet off.

I would say the fit of your helmet might not be ideal :)
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the mapping issue, but an ill-fitting lid that gives you headache needs sorting IMHO

Will you be riding solo or as a small/large group ? That adds a new issue of being the one who says you need to stop after 60-90 mins when the rest want to push on for longer.

Flip up lids are convenient but; to be honest, I don't have an issue taking my helmet off at a stop, rather than just flipping it up. It takes seconds to take off or put on. Comfort is key tho
 
My phone is often my only mapping back-up. Download the Google map tiles for your journey before you travel or via hotel wifi. Stick a roll of electrical tape under the seat. Handy for all sorts of things, including taping route notes to your tank if the satnav messes up. Make sure the pen you use to write any notes has waterproof ink.

you do not have to stick riding with the group. Maybe try it for the first couple of days to see how it goes. I found when doing MCi Tours 20 years ago that I preferred to be in a smaller group or solo. A large group refuelling with petrol or coffee can be tiresome. 3 or 4 bikes in a group is easy to keep together, a dozen or more is tiresome.

I have had a flip helmet since 2015. I would not go back to a full face. They make touring much nicer e.g. if you stop to take a picture or have a sip of water you keep your helmet on and riding through villages in the increasing number of 30kph limits.
 
I prefer full face helmets as they must be inherently stronger. In my experience most U.K. border force officers require you to remove it, not just flip it up so where’s the advantage? I was once told that Schuberth claimed that flip front helmets are quieter, but I’m not convinced.

I used a Satnav, but take paper maps, which are great for planning.
 
I'm not usually a tank bag guy, so my plan was to just load the routes into my Zumo XT and use only that for navigation. I'll have my printed route-notes in my panniers somewhere if I need them, but they won't be visible while riding.
Click to expand...

You're good.
I have everything on the sat nav (backup on the phone) and I keep a paper map in my backpack just in case when traveling abroad or far-ish.
 
If they expect you to follow a specific route they should provide a GPX file which you can put into your GPS. If it's a 'meet at X at 1700' then it's still satnav. I wouldn't use written notes on the tank, it takes your eyes off the road for too long. Do your homework, prep your GPS then ride. Flip-up helmets are great for quick stops for a drink or to take a photo.
 
Thanks for the replies so far.

Not sure about group size yet, it might be 8-12 people in each group. They do give detailed GPX files, plus a marked up paper Michelin map, plus detailed route notes.

I'm not hearing anyone say the tank bag is essential, so I think I'll stick with my original plan of GPS + handlebar bag only.

I'll have my phone and a paper map and notes in the panniers anyway if I need them. Good tip about the tape though, thanks!

I just remembered I still have a Beeline Moto in the garage somewhere, so I'll take that as a backup in case my Zumo XT gets nicked/broken.

Between all that lot I should be fine for nav, I was just curious if the touring regulars recommended having your route-notes up front to cover any GPS issues that might occur,
but hopefully the Zumo XT should be fine.

As for the helmet, yeah I may have a fitting issue, it felt absolutely fine in the shop when I got it fitted, this pressure point only happens after 1h+.
I got it from Motolegends, and I know they are good with Shoei pads/liners, I'll take it in and see what they can do.
While I am there I will try out a Shoei Neotech II and a Schuberth C5 to see how they fit me.
 
I have toured quite a bit and never used route notes, just a satnav with the route pre-loaded. Tank bags are useful for immediate access stuff when you want to stay on the bike, eg ferry tickets and passport, phone and/or camera.

You could take your GT Air to a decent helmet shop to see if different size cheek and/or top pads will help the comfort. It's a simple job to change them.

I'm not a fan of flip front helmets. They are heavier and I would never ride with the front flipped up. If I want to have a conversation I need to remove my earplugs, so the helmet has to come off. Some flip fronts are a little quieter as the aperture can be smaller so less road noise enters the helmet. Earplugs mean the difference is barely noticeable.

As a Neotec is about £600, it's a big cost if you don't like it. Have you got a mate with one you could try?

Enjoy the tour. Don't overthink it.
 
ymfb said:
I prefer full face helmets as they must be inherently stronger. In my experience most U.K. border force officers require you to remove it, not just flip it up so where’s the advantage? I was once told that Schuberth claimed that flip front helmets are quieter, but I’m not convinced.

I used a Satnav, but take paper maps, which are great for planning.
Click to expand...

Never had to remove my flip helmet and didn't on my last trip a few weeks ago. Riders with full face had to though. You must have had grumpy border force. :) Safety wise, if its good enough for the police, it is good enough for me
 
Hi

Ive been on several of the BMW Motorrad tours.

If you've never toured before, it is an easy introduction.

They supply a marked up map, and the GPX file for download to your preferred satnav.

It won't take long before you split up into groups of the people who've gelled with.

The tour leaders are all excellent.
 
I use a tankbag option. Very easy to plug a spare device in and charge it while riding. or even jut charge the phone/powerbank then I can charge by BT headset at night if not in a hotel. Also easier to pop my vape in and out while riding and a flip lid. I woudn't bother much more with mapping, they seem to be giving you a lot of direction already
 
casbar said:
Never had to remove my flip helmet and didn't on my last trip a few weeks ago. Riders with full face had to though. You must have had grumpy border force. :) Safety wise, if its good enough for the police, it is good enough for me
Click to expand...

Likewise this afternoon at the tea huts on the way back from Le Mans. The tea drinker (Border Force officer) told me that only full face lids need to be removed.
 
I would change the helmet. You don't have to spend megabucks. You should be able to wear the helmet without ever thinking about it, same for boots etc. If there is a niggle it will spoil the experience, don't persevere with it.

Don't feel pressured to ride outside of your comfort zone, it's an easy trap to fall into in a group. Good luck and enjoy. :aidan
 
BillWright said:
Hi

Ive been on several of the BMW Motorrad tours.

If you've never toured before, it is an easy introduction.

They supply a marked up map, and the GPX file for download to your preferred satnav.

It won't take long before you split up into groups of the people who've gelled with.

The tour leaders are all excellent.
Click to expand...

Wot he said! Been on three over the years with typically 8-10 bikes on each.
I use an SW tankbag ( actually I have four, but dont tell the missus!) as I felt a bar bag was a little too small. I keep my toolkit and first aid in there.
We were booked for Motorrad 20 and 21 but didnt go for some reason... Early choices required for both of us so we are heading North on the Midnight Sun just as you head East.
 
casbar said:
Never had to remove my flip helmet and didn't on my last trip a few weeks ago. Riders with full face had to though. You must have had grumpy border force. :) Safety wise, if its good enough for the police, it is good enough for me
Click to expand...

Maybe it’s just Portsmouth Border Force that insist on it, certainly not been asked in France or Spain.

Police officers aren’t engineers ;)
 
Sounds you're more of a long oval than a round head shape. I would phone someone like sportsbikeshop.co.uk and ask them which helmets are better for more front to back space (long oval) and then order a few to try on in one of their stores.

The Arai Profile V and Debut are both very good for long ovals, if you end up with a Profile V and a medium size give me a shout, I have an 'as new' Profile V in Calm Red it is unmarked, I've worn it for about 3 hours and didn't gel with it put it back in the box a year ago...and never touched it since, also got the extra visor with the sunshade and brand new cheek pads in a larger size and extra pinlock. You can have the lot for half price.
 
ymfb said:
Maybe it’s just Portsmouth Border Force that insist on it, certainly not been asked in France or Spain.

Police officers aren’t engineers ;)
Click to expand...

Beware;

Just passed through Portsmouth (Sunday) on return from France, I have a BMW Carbon 7 Flip which clearly shows my face, was asked in a aggressive tone to remove my helmet. questioned why and was told again in a aggressive tone ... Quote "If you don't remove your Helmet you will be detained and denied entry to UK" I complied and muttered something like bloody jobsworth, they held my passport for a minute photographed it and told me I was to reported for abusing a Border Force Officer.
 
Easy peasy. If you have the route files, upload them to MyRouteApp. Then you automatically have them on your phone, tablet, laptop, whatever. Shoot that day's route to your XT wirelessly via Garmin drive.

You are good to go. Route on the XT and backed up to the cloud on all your devices. Even if everything fails, you should have the hotel address, so just go there.

Don't over think it. It's just like (for example) going to a hotel in Scunthorpe. You should roughly know what direction you need to go and you will get there at some point.

That said, when I do trips, I don't give the route files to the hoi polloi in advance. That way, they never know if I have got lost as long as I do it with confidence. Destination for the end of the day, yes. Route, no.
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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