You are so right. Move on….
Gore-tex - Heated gloves - An open question
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You are so right. Move on….
water will vaporise in your fridge at 5C - leave a slice of ham uncovered in your fridge and it will dry out. What process do you think is happening? Heat accelerates the process.
there seems an alarming absence of basic logic and rudimentary knowledge of physics in this thread
Now that you have told me to, I'm staying put.....
One minute going; the next minute, staying.
I don’t know what the world is coming to.
The temperature and pressure differential across the PTFE membrane is the reason that Gore-Tex enables effective transpiration.
The extent to which it is effective is, to some measure, dependent upon environmental factors; i.e. the micro-climate in which it's operating.
The extent to which it is effective is, to some measure, dependent upon environmental factors; i.e. the micro-climate in which it's operating.
My understanding is that the Goretex membrane is a fluorinated polymer and is therefore unlikely to be damaged by any heat that grips could produce (think frying pans). Mechanical damage (holes) is what you need to worry about.
I think AustinW is correct, and I've certainly had wet hands whilst wearing (brand new BMW) Goretex gloves with heated grips on.
(sorry didn't realise there was a second page before posting this
)
I think AustinW is correct, and I've certainly had wet hands whilst wearing (brand new BMW) Goretex gloves with heated grips on.
(sorry didn't realise there was a second page before posting this
)
I agree with the majority of your content above apart from hydrostatic head. I do speak from experience as I headed up a textile lab that ran hydrostatic head tests every day. On a HH test a 100mm piece of material is tested until three droplets or releases of water are seen. Its certainly not molecules of water its beads or droplets.
On the subject of W.L.Gores HH I dont think anyone truly knows as it was always a proprietary secret. Also there are different gauges of membrane, the ones used in deep sea suits are clearly thicker than Paclite.
Straight from the horse's mouth!
Looks like we are all right. It's temperature dependent.
"Thank you for contacting GORE-TEX Brand Services.
Gloves with GORETEX® technology are particularly popular. They not only protect your hands from the wind, but are also waterproof and breathable. As is normal with functional membranes, in rare cases, and at certain temperatures, some moisture will get inside. However, this is not a material defect, but a physical phenomenon known as Reverse Transmission.
The reason why GORE-TEX® products are waterproof and highly breathable is mainly down to the microporous structure of the membranes. There are 1.4 billion pores per square centimetre. This means that the small water vapour molecules are able to escape, but the much bigger water molecules cannot get in. The direction in which the water vapour escapes depends on the partial pressure, which is determined by temperature and atmospheric humidity. As a rule, this pressure is lower outside the clothing than inside, so the vapour escapes outwards. Therefore, as an extreme example, a temperature of 37 degrees (body heat) and 100 percent atmospheric humidity is retained inside a motorcycle glove if the skin is covered with sweat.
Reverse Transmission
If it is very hot and humid outside, however, there may be a higher pressure outside than inside. In these exceptional cases, the pressure ratio is reversed and water vapour can penetrate from outside. This is known as Reverse Transmission. This phenomenon can occur in the tropics, or in exceptional cases, when using heated motorcycle handles: with an assumed body temperature of 37°C, outside temperatures of 40°C and more could occur on the glove if the handles are heated. If it then rains enough to make the surface of the handles wet, because of the increased outside pressure, water vapour molecules could penetrate the gloves, which are still waterproof. Experience has shown that this effect only occurs very rarely, and when it does, only very slightly.
We hope this information is useful.
Best regards,
Julian Marc
GORE-TEX Brand Services"
Tom
Looks like we are all right. It's temperature dependent.
"Thank you for contacting GORE-TEX Brand Services.
Gloves with GORETEX® technology are particularly popular. They not only protect your hands from the wind, but are also waterproof and breathable. As is normal with functional membranes, in rare cases, and at certain temperatures, some moisture will get inside. However, this is not a material defect, but a physical phenomenon known as Reverse Transmission.
The reason why GORE-TEX® products are waterproof and highly breathable is mainly down to the microporous structure of the membranes. There are 1.4 billion pores per square centimetre. This means that the small water vapour molecules are able to escape, but the much bigger water molecules cannot get in. The direction in which the water vapour escapes depends on the partial pressure, which is determined by temperature and atmospheric humidity. As a rule, this pressure is lower outside the clothing than inside, so the vapour escapes outwards. Therefore, as an extreme example, a temperature of 37 degrees (body heat) and 100 percent atmospheric humidity is retained inside a motorcycle glove if the skin is covered with sweat.
Reverse Transmission
If it is very hot and humid outside, however, there may be a higher pressure outside than inside. In these exceptional cases, the pressure ratio is reversed and water vapour can penetrate from outside. This is known as Reverse Transmission. This phenomenon can occur in the tropics, or in exceptional cases, when using heated motorcycle handles: with an assumed body temperature of 37°C, outside temperatures of 40°C and more could occur on the glove if the handles are heated. If it then rains enough to make the surface of the handles wet, because of the increased outside pressure, water vapour molecules could penetrate the gloves, which are still waterproof. Experience has shown that this effect only occurs very rarely, and when it does, only very slightly.
We hope this information is useful.
Best regards,
Julian Marc
GORE-TEX Brand Services"
Tom
Thank you.
The upshot then is that some gloves (not all) might leak (if that is the right word) under some (not all) circumstances. Thankfully, I seem to have never hit on the ‘wrong’ glove, nor encountered the precise circumstances that might bring about a leakage.
The upshot then is that some gloves (not all) might leak (if that is the right word) under some (not all) circumstances. Thankfully, I seem to have never hit on the ‘wrong’ glove, nor encountered the precise circumstances that might bring about a leakage.
Some gloves might transmit water vapour from the outside to the inside under some circumstances if water penetrates the exterior of the glove to reach the membrane at the palm. But then, with heated grips on, much of the aforementioned water vapour is likely to exit through the back of the glove anyway.
So you might get moist hands, but at least they will be warm.
So you might get moist hands, but at least they will be warm.
Moist, what a great word that is.
Have a search for what is the hydrostatic head for gore tex, I found “ As a rule of thumb guide an hydrostatic head of 3000 is decent waterproofing, however if the jacket is used with a rucksack a much higher value will be needed. e.g. Gore-tex which has a minimum rating 20,000 when the jacket is new.” at https://www.outdoorgear.co.uk/hydrostatic-head.asp
Sounds like if you only wear winter gloves in winter like your supposed to then you should be ok.
As long as your warmer inside the glove than outside... which it should be.
unsure then keep heated grips on low
As long as your warmer inside the glove than outside... which it should be.
unsure then keep heated grips on low
The reason it happens in motorcycle gloves is because you're in direct contact with the heated grip holding onto it. It causes something called Osmosis which makes water move from a hot side of a lining to the colder side.
It won't happen every single time you wear them, and the conditions would need to be right for it to happen but every now and then you will definitely get wet hands if using gore-tex gloves and heated grips at the same time.
The only gloves I'm aware of (there may be more by now) is the Revit Fusion 2 gloves which are specifically made to prevent this from happening: https://www.motocentral.co.uk/revit-fusion-2-gore-tex-gloves-black.html
They reflect SOME of the heat back out the glove to try and avoid the problem happening.
It won't happen to everyone, but it's certainly something we see as a retailer every now and then when customers complain that their gloves are "leaking". If you pop your gloves hand into a bucket of water and it doesn't come through, they're not leaking... the problem will be water down the cuff.. or you're using heated grips and it causes the effect to happen.
Unless things have changed when I was at school Osmosis has nothing to do with heat. Osmosis is when a weak solution transfers through a membrane to a more concentrated solution. Hence R O units in hospitals and sailing vessels.
as in post #10 quoting a Goretex employee, it is a gaseous pressure differential that makes Goretex work, not osmosis which is specific to solutions.
Heated grips on higher settings will eventually cause the goretex membrane to delaminate from the rest of the glove, best solution for me is Barkbuster muffs, thin gloves eg, GS rally and heated grips.
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