Gore-tex - Heated gloves - An open question

Wapping · Nov 7, 2022

There are lots of posts where bods say that using heated hand grips, sends the Gore-Tex into reverse, allowing it to draw water in.

If this is the case, why doesn’t my jacket draw water in when I use my heated liner? Why don’t my trousers draw in water, when I use my heated seat? Is there some fundamental difference between a heated grip and a heated seat, other than one warms a rider’s hands and the other, the rider’s bum?

Victor c · Nov 7, 2022

Wapping said:
There are lots of posts where bods say that using heated hand grips, sends the Gore-Tex into reverse, allowing it to draw water in.

If this is the case, why doesn’t my jacket draw water in when I use my heated liner? Why don’t my trousers draw in water, when I use my heated seat? Is there some fundamental difference between a heated grip and a heated seat, other than one warms a rider’s hands and the other, the rider’s bum?

Ask this guy, as he apparently knows everything about motorcycle gear https://www.motolegends.com/reviews/Heated-Grips-and-Waterproof-Gloves

Barnoe · Nov 7, 2022

I would like to know the answer to this question too.... before i bugger my gloves!
Ironically this year is the first time I've bought gortex gloves... typical.

i don't like cold hands, but cold AND wet is worse.
wonder how many tossers have had this issue?

Wapping · Nov 7, 2022

Victor c said:
Ask this guy, as he apparently knows everything about motorcycle gear https://www.motolegends.com/reviews/Heated-Grips-and-Waterproof-Gloves

I saw that in a Google search, along with umpteen posts on the topic, all convinced that Gore-Tex lined gloves do not work with heated grips. This prompted my question here.

My Gore-Tex lined Rukka gloves stay dry in heavy rain, using the very good heated grips on my 1600.

Over the years, I have never felt my hands get wet, using Gore-Tex lined gloves, when using heated grips.

Nor does my Gore-Tex lined jacket leak, when I use it in heavy rain with my heated jacket liner. Nor do my Gore-Tex lined trousers leak, when used with my heated seat.

Maybe I am just lucky?

John Armstrong · Nov 7, 2022

Heated jacket liner is easy, the heated bit is inside the Gore-Tex, unlike the gloves where the extra heat is on the outside.

Heated gloves tend to be in the waters firing line, your bum is less likely to be constantly in the waters firing line would be my guess

Wapping · Nov 7, 2022

I am sure that sitting in a puddle of water for several hours, puts a rider’s bum, straight into the firing line, along with the rest of the rider’s body.

ilkleymoron · Nov 7, 2022

i thought the water molecules were too big to go through the pores of the fabric but human perspiration molecules are not and that that was a basic premiss on which the stuff worked

so even if the glove gets hot on the outside the water molecules are too big to go through the pores of the fabric and besides your hands will be slightly hotter

Last week I used Richa gortex gloves and BMW heated grips and my skin on my hands went odd but that was because my hands were wet when I put them in the gloves – I could not avoid it, but they were not any wetter throughout the journey or did not gte any wetter to the point they were soaking inside

Udders · Nov 7, 2022

I’ve never had a problem with my gortex gloves and heated grips. :nenau

Wapping · Nov 7, 2022

Udders said:
I’ve never had a problem with my gortex gloves and heated grips.

Neither have I.

I have long suspected that it’s a myth, which has become the truth, when bods repeated it often enough. That and bods tucking the sleeves of their jackets into their gloves, to act as a dedicated channel for the water to run down.

tuftywhite · Nov 7, 2022

Like John Armstrong has said.

If the heat is on the inside of the Gore-Tex, then the layers will wick from heat to cold.

When using heated grips, the heat is outside the Gore-Tex so the water will wick into the glove. If you have heated inner gloves, that would resolve the issue.

Since I learned this about heated grips/Gore-Tex, I only use my heated grips when it's not raining (and cold) and have had positive results.

adm1 · Nov 7, 2022

I also have never had a problem with GoreTex gloves and heated grips.

I get that if the heated grip causes water to evaporate between grip and glove, then that could potentially pass through the membrane into the glove. But all a glove maker would need to do would be to actually have something truly waterproof in the palm of the glove to prevent it. The moisture created inside the glove by perspiration can simply exit through the GoreTex in the back and sides of the glove.

No big deal.

RedRick Esq. · Nov 7, 2022

Wapping said:
There are lots of posts where bods say that using heated hand grips, sends the Gore-Tex into reverse, allowing it to draw water in.

If this is the case, why doesn’t my jacket draw water in when I use my heated liner? Why don’t my trousers draw in water, when I use my heated seat? Is there some fundamental difference between a heated grip and a heated seat, other than one warms a rider’s hands and the other, the rider’s bum?

I dont think that they draw water in per se but Goretex is wonderful stuff, both breathable and water proof, as it says on the tin

My opinion is that whilst the claim is true, the stuff cant do both at the same time, so it can be water proof or breathable depending on the conditions. If it's raining and heated grips are on i think sweaty clammy hands make it feel wet rather than it having leaked because of the grips

AustinW · Nov 7, 2022

The Goretex membrane is in most circumstances** an impermeable barrier to liquid water. It is not however an impermeable barrier to water vapour but does require both a temperature differential and a humdity differential across the membrane to drive the vapour through. So in ‘normal’ use on a jacket gloves or whatever rain can’t get in but water vapour can get out as your body heat or perhaps even the heat from a heated jacket pushes water vapour (from sweating) through the membrane. A heated jacket therefore makes Goretex work better. This makes for a slightly more comfortable (less sweaty and clammy) environment inside the jacket. If the outer of the jacket wets out there can be no humidity differential and water vapour will not pass through the membrane. In fact it will probably condense out on the inside of the membrane with the appearance of the membrane leaking.

On gloves and heated grips there is a risk that - in reality almost a certainty - the temperature and humidity gradient is reversed ie it’s warmer and wetter on the outside of the gloves where you are clinging onto the warmth of the grips and so water vapour gets pushed through from out to in where it will probably condense out on the gloves’ interior somewhere. Result warm but wet hands and a biker bod convinced their gloves leak. This definitely happens and has happened to me on numerous occasions.

** Like all waterproof fabrics Goretex has a hydrostatic head which effectively how much pressure is needed to start forcing molecules of liquid water through the fabric. I don’t know what the HH is for Goretex but I don’t think it’s very high as water definitely comes through areas that are stretched or flex frequently, eg over knees or elbows.

Goretex and the like isn’t really needed for a static activity like motorcycling, at least not while you are sat still zooming up the motorway. Off roading or when off the bike walking about it does have its benefits.

John Armstrong · Nov 7, 2022

Wapping said:
I am sure that sitting in a puddle of water for several hours, puts a rider’s bum, straight into the firing line, along with the rest of the rider’s body.

Is that part of the enjoyment, sitting in a warm puddle of water? Got to ask as I've never owned a bike with a heated seat, and all the ones I have , the seat seemed fairly water resistant.

richardbd · Nov 7, 2022

AustinW said:
The Goretex membrane is in most circumstances** an impermeable barrier to liquid water. It is not however an impermeable barrier to water vapour but does require both a temperature differential and a humdity differential across the membrane to drive the vapour through. So in ‘normal’ use on a jacket gloves or whatever rain can’t get in but water vapour can get out as your body heat or perhaps even the heat from a heated jacket pushes water vapour (from sweating) through the membrane. A heated jacket therefore makes Goretex work better. This makes for a slightly more comfortable (less sweaty and clammy) environment inside the jacket. If the outer of the jacket wets out there can be no humidity differential and water vapour will not pass through the membrane. In fact it will probably condense out on the inside of the membrane with the appearance of the membrane leaking.

On gloves and heated grips there is a risk that - in reality almost a certainty - the temperature and humidity gradient is reversed ie it’s warmer and wetter on the outside of the gloves where you are clinging onto the warmth of the grips and so water vapour gets pushed through from out to in where it will probably condense out on the gloves’ interior somewhere. Result warm but wet hands and a biker bod convinced their gloves leak. This definitely happens and has happened to me on numerous occasions.

** Like all waterproof fabrics Goretex has a hydrostatic head which effectively how much pressure is needed to start forcing molecules of liquid water through the fabric. I don’t know what the HH is for Goretex but I don’t think it’s very high as water definitely comes through areas that are stretched or flex frequently, eg over knees or elbows.

Goretex and the like isn’t really needed for a static activity like motorcycling, at least not while you are sat still zooming up the motorway. Off roading or when off the bike walking about it does have its benefits.

This +1

Barnoe · Nov 7, 2022

Question is....

IF i do use Goretex gloves on heated grips and they leak...
The day after when im starting dry again, is the Goretex good again, or is it permanently damaged by the heat?

wessie · Nov 7, 2022

Barnoe said:
Question is....

IF i do use Goretex gloves on heated grips and they leak...
The day after when im starting dry again, is the Goretex good again, or is it permanently damaged by the heat?

No - all that is happening is that water vapour is going through the membrane in a sub-optimal direction due to the heat differential being in the wrong direction.

If you read the care instructions with Goretex garments made from washable fabric, they advise treating the garment with something like Nikwax TX Direct and then lob it into a tumble drier which improves the efficacy of the treatment.

Wapping · Nov 7, 2022

RedRick Esq. said:
. If it's raining and heated grips are on i think sweaty clammy hands make it feel wet rather than it having leaked because of the grips

That is getting much closer to the truth.

The clammy, sweaty hands, trick the brain into thinking it’s water ingress, when it’s nothing of the sort. The bikermate (who likes to always blame someone or something) blames Gore-Tex and his heated grips.

My arse, sitting in Gore-Tex lined trousers on a very warm heated seat, in what is effectively a puddle of water, felt damp. I could easily say was water being drawn in…..but it wasn’t, it just felt damp. A trick, played on me, which I was obliged to fall for.

johnnyboy · Nov 7, 2022

Who gives fuck is my response. Goretex gloves and heated grips work for me, I don't really care what anybody else says. Just let them think they are right and move on.........

ilkleymoron · Nov 7, 2022

Wapping said:
That is getting much closer to the truth.

The clammy, sweaty hands, trick the brain into thinking it’s water ingress, when it’s nothing of the sort. The bikermate (who likes to always blame someone or something) blames Gore-Tex and his heated grips.

My arse, sitting in Gore-Tex lined trousers on a very warm heated seat, in what is effectively a puddle of water, felt damp. I could easily say was water being drawn in…..but it wasn’t, it just felt damp. A trick, played on me, which I was obliged to fall for.

maybe

i don't see how with heated grips the water vaporises, surely temperatures need to be higher to turn a liquid into a gas

are water vapour molecules smaller than sweat or is it the heat makes the pores of the gore tex expand

maybe we ought to ask this guy
https://www.gore-tex.com/en_uk/blog/when-is-a-garment-waterproof

Gore-tex - Heated gloves - An open question

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