Alps Trip Route Advice

There is a common theme emerging, that the OP and chums can do more, by doing less. The reality is that, nobody needs X minimum number of days to do anything. We had a perfectly good time away, riding to Luxembourg in a day, spending a day there (two nights) and riding home again in a day, in November. Similarly, we have spent a perfectly good one day just riding around some very good roads, all no further than 80 miles of Calais, an area where, as we are regularly assured on these pages, there are no good roads. I’ll accept that I start from the advantageous position of living in London (many will see that as some sort of hell) and not far from the Channel coast. Others though, live close to Wales, the Peak District and Scotland, and all they they have to offer.

He’ll know himself and his three mates way better than us, as what they are capable of. They’ll make mistakes; we all did and still do but providing nobody dies, they’ll have a good time….. or a really crap time. If it’s good, they’ll want to go again. If it’s bad, they’ll probably want to go again, if for no other reason that it CAN’T be as bad as the last time, can it?

paul08 said:

The Harz Mountains have been recommended and I can thoroughly agree with that. But steer clear of the area at weekends: the sports bike ‘gods’ from Berlin and Hannover descend on the area at weekends and all seem to have a deathwish. And, as a result, the police and speed cameras come out in force

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I really don't know why, but after reading many recommendations on the Harz "mountains", 3 of us spent a week there in September. Totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the area. I wouldn't recommend it at all. The Peak District is more picturesque. Tommy Gunn is expecting a write up of our trip but it was so dire really, that I cant as yet, be arsed. ....and that's without me moaning about getting there and back. Never again.


Devastation of the larch forests due to climate change....."mewions" of hectares.

Tinytim said:

I really don't know why, but after reading many recommendations on the Harz "mountains", 3 of us spent a week there in September. Totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the area. I wouldn't recommend it at all. The Peak District is more picturesque. Tommy Gunn is expecting a write up of our trip but it was so dire really, that I cant as yet, be arsed. ....and that's without me moaning about getting there and back. Never again.

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See OP, everyone makes mistakes, even now.

Wapping said:

See OP, everyone makes mistakes, even now.

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You win some, you lose some eh

Tinytim said:

I really don't know why, but after reading many recommendations on the Harz "mountains", 3 of us spent a week there in September. Totally disappointed and underwhelmed by the area. I wouldn't recommend it at all. The Peak District is more picturesque. Tommy Gunn is expecting a write up of our trip but it was so dire really, that I cant as yet, be arsed. ....and that's without me moaning about getting there and back. Never again.


Devastation of the larch forests due to climate change....."mewions" of hectares.

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I would agree about the Harz area but it has a use, gets you off the autobahn onto better roads as you head east. We stopped there for 2 nights on the way east and whilst not that scenic, there was a great campsite amongst those trees, nice walks as well. But, keep heading east and you get to Czech Switzerland, a really nice area that I'd go back to any time, in fact the highlight of the trip we did this summer. Road report to follow.

I spoke to a lad on a GS in an Aldi car park in Braunlage, group of 3 in September, may have been you guys? As I recall they were heading off to watch the fire bombing choppers before early beer so yes, a bit bored

9 Days is plenty for the "Alps", just not all of them.

You could get the book "Motorcycle journey's through the alpos and beyond", this is how I started, picking a couple of locations in the book and spending a couple of days at each of them, plus the trip in and out.

9 Days is plenty for a trip to Andermatt, from the Cotswolds we can get to Andrmatt in 2 days easily (if day one is mainly motorway) and 3 days with just day 1 mainly motorway (and your not missing a huge amount by blasting for a few hundred miles out of Calais.

Personally I would look at 3 days out & back, you could take in a bit of the Morvan / Vosges / Black Forest / Ardennes / Eifel on your travels and have 3 full days in Andermatt, plent of good rise outs from there, and your not moving on every day for 9 days - which for 1st tour may be a bonus.

A route from Andermatt to the Black Forest can be found here:

https://www.myrouteapp.com/profile/routes/485#981740/datetime/desc

And 5 ride outs from Andermatt here:

https://www.myrouteapp.com/profile/routes/485#981738/name/asc

I have logged most of my trips keeping average speeds etc. but this is very personal, with the Mrs on her bike we find allowing 15 mins of stop time for each hour of riding works well, and add an extra 30 mins for lunch, so 6 hours riding = 2 hours stops, and that is about as much as we do with the exception of maybe 1st and last day of mile crushing the boring bits.

French motorways are fast, we average 65-70 mph (ignoring stops) if weather good, a good reason not to try and max miles for a day is if its bad you may need an extra hous, so planning a 12 hour days and then finding its turning into a 15 hour day in the rain is not fun.

Mixed road riding varies a bit more, I actually use My Route App a lot, with the pro version I can get google / garmin / Tom Tom time estimates, generally I can beat any of those times, but if you take the worst one of the three as your worst case you cannot go far wrong, and google is not too bad as an estimate.

Mountains (proper big ones) are slow, I ride in Wales a lot as its fairly close and always average over 40mph on a days riding about even when taking in some single track here and there, in the alps its about 30mph, some rides may have sections of flat straight valleys and boost it a bit, but others your doing well to make 30mph in good conditions....
...And yo may stop more, every corner reveals a new "must take a picture" view, (almost) every pass has a nice looking place to grab a drink / lunch / snack etc.

If you just ride you can do the 15 mins per hour calc, but we plan for 4-5 hour rides a lot on the Alps, if we are going from one location to another we might do a lot more and not stop much, mainly because we are riding passes we have done 2,3,4,5 times before, and because its a neccessity, but if looping out of a base we like to have time to enjoy the day without rushing.

Another option would be to ride Route Des Grand Alps, this would be 3 days to the bottom to start, 3 days to ride up the route, and 3 days back, do-able, and if you can only ever get 9 days then worth it, but I would advise taking longer, there is so much around the southern end you could do with about 3 days riding out of Barcelonnette to take in Gorge du Verdon and Sampeyre as well as the other passes running parralel to RDGA at that spot, and an extra day around Bourg St Maurice to do the 7 loop pass around Mont Blanc.

The routes are in those MRA folders I linked, you could possibly do the "middle bit" of RDGA and get home in a 2 day motorway madness blast, saving a couple of extra days - and giving you couple of 2-night stops so your not always rushing in and out of Hotels - but TBH for 1st tour I would still go with the Andermatt idea, or possible just getting to the northern end of RDGA and exploring from Bourg St Maurice.

IMHO you really need more time for Grossglochner as it is out at the furthers point, last time we went we took 5 days to get there stopping at Andermatt, Bormio (Stelvio) and had a couple of days in the Dolomites along the way, we can do it in 2 long days of all motorway, with square tyres on arrival, but there is no fun in that, and I really think many other parts of the Alps are better anyway (and closer)

Closer to home you could do a great tour taking in the Morvan, Vosges, Black Forest, Luxembourg & Ardennes in 9 days, and as a first trip maybe that would work better, shorter out / back, smaller areas, easier mountains (hills really).

Day 1 - Motorway Blast into France
Day 2 - Ride through Morvan and head towards / into Vosges
Day 3 - Arrive in Black Forest for 3 night stop
Day 4 - Loop around Black Forest
Day 5 - More Black Forest
Day 6 - Ride up to Luxembourg
Day 7 - Loop Around Luxembourg
Day 8 - Start heading home
Day 9 - Home

Or even easier forget Morvan / Vosges and from Calais head into Ardennes and onto Black Frest from there saving a day and have extra day in Luxembourg (Vianden is my pick)

Have a think

@Rasher Thank you so much for your very thorough response. I really do appreciate you taking the time to come up your suggestions. The idea of getting to Andermatt and then doing a few rides from there sounds appealing. I have spent quite a few holidays in the Alps skiing and cycling (push bike, not motorbike) but I have never stayed in Switzerland, because I have always considered it to be very expensive for food and drink. Is that your experience or is it not too bad? All four of us are 'keen' beer guzzlers haha

alesupper said:

@Rasher Thank you so much for your very thorough response. I really do appreciate you taking the time to come up your suggestions. The idea of getting to Andermatt and then doing a few rides from there sounds appealing. I have spent quite a few holidays in the Alps skiing and cycling (push bike, not motorbike) but I have never stayed in Switzerland, because I have always considered it to be very expensive for food and drink. Is that your experience or is it not too bad? All four of us are 'keen' beer guzzlers haha

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Switzerland is more expensive than the UK for food, beer & accommodation. France is silly for beer prices in bars, especially when it is so cheap in supermarkets.

If cost is a factor than Austria and Germany are much better value. There are some fantastic alpine roads in both of these countries, or go with the suggestion of the Black Forest & Mosel.

Nauders in Austria would make a nice base. Close to the triple point where Austria meets Italy & Switzerland. Loads of hotels from simple pensions to 4* spa hotels.

Day 1 - Motorway Blast into France
Day 2 - Ride through Morvan and head towards / into Vosges
Day 3 - Arrive in Black Forest for 3 night stop
Day 4 - Loop around Black Forest
Day 5 - More Black Forest
Day 6 - Ride up to Luxembourg
Day 7 - Loop Around Luxembourg
Day 8 - Start heading home
Day 9 - Home

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That’s not too far removed from post #23.

9 Days is plenty for a trip to Andermatt, from the Cotswolds we can get to Andrmatt in 2 days easily (if day one is mainly motorway) and 3 days with just day 1 mainly motorway (and your not missing a huge amount by blasting for a few hundred miles out of Calais.

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Is all pretty close to:

Me, I’d look at maybe:

Belgium / Luxembourg Ardennes and maybe up into the Harz, not least as they suit an arrival / departure from Holland, which might suit your Kendal location.

Belgium / Luxembourg Ardennes, then the Morvan and then down to the Vosges / Black Forest.

A blat to the Alps to say, Andermatt or into the French alps at Annecy.

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There is a common theme emerging here, OP. But you know you and your three mates better than anyone. If you really do want to avoid all motorways, do want to stop to do ‘stuff’ en-route and want to avoid Switzerland’s expense but do want mountains, then you’ll need to think about something else.

As to the expense of Switzerland? You are going to be there for what? Three nights? Simply cut your cloth accordingly, spending a bit less time on the neck oil, in exchange for some good riding out from Andermatt. £6 for a coffee, too much? How many are you actually going to buy each in three days? Six, perhaps? That’s £36 or roughly one tank of petrol. Go to France and it might be £4 cup. That is a saving of £12 over what you might have spent in Switzerland; but it’s not life changing.

But hey, it’s your and your mates’ holiday, not mine or anyone else’s, so - between the four of you - decide on something (even if it’s your original plan) and just do it.

alesupper said:

Are you a Kendalian DC?

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unfortunately not, 50 miles south of Kendal, but I head to the south lakes a lot so know the area well enough.

Beer prices are one of the reasons why I prefer to head east for my solo motorbike holidays. Obviously it helps that you can see different places and the roads are generally quieter but beer, food and hotel savings offset the additional fuel costs by a long way.

My first trip abroad was to the south of Spain. No sat navs, no fancy luggage or modern marvel motorcycle. A GPZ900R, set of throw overs and tail pack, tank bag with old school map and hand written directions, and the 19 year old girlfriend plonked on the back for entertainment in the evenings (she’s now my wife and rides her own bike).

Didn’t have a clue about riding abroad, had no hotels booked, no spares/tyre plugging system, no expectations or worries on what we would encounter.

Still here and still travelling, except now I have all those other accoutrements of modern technology and get me out of the shit tyre worms, compressor, first aid kit etc etc. in the 25 years since my first trip I’ve still never had a puncture or not been able to find my way to where I needed to get to (had a sat nav failure this year and used the sun to determine which direction I needed to go).

Book ya tickets, have a rough idea of where you’d like to go, make sure you have passports, documents, health card and ya bags packed……and go and explore. You might end up somewhere you hadn’t planned, and it may be the best place on the whole trip

Flipfly said:

Book ya tickets, have a rough idea of where you’d like to go, make sure you have passports, documents, health card and ya bags packed……and go and explore. You might end up somewhere you hadn’t planned, and it may be the best place on the whole trip

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Best way to travel for me, head off and enjoy, no constraints. Big world outside your front door

You'll find somewhere to sleep, to drink and eat, good roads and average ones, good folk to drink with and folk to escape from. Sitting at home looking on the internet for where to go gives you ideas but if you then book it all up you are tied to a plan. Things might look and feel different when you are "abroad" and you may decide to head off in a different direction. Nice to have that flexibility (for me, not everyone I realise, lots of ways to do it, all fine, main thing is to go)

Yes, anyone can do all that, too.

In many ways, the internet (with its mass of information) and all its “Tell me and my three mates, all we need to know about….” has made life easier and harder. Lots of us can remember having a paper map and (if we were lucky) the Michelin Red book of hotels, along with using foreign phones boxes, if we were brave enough. It didn’t though make us some kind of super heroes, that’s for sure.

But all this ‘just ride out of the door’ stuff (besides proving how big our bollocks are or were) doesn’t work for everyone. Yes, matey and his three mates can or could do it all for themselves but, for whatever reasons, they have materialised here. Yes, they can sometimes be given a kick up the pants to at least try. Yes, I have sometimes had fun, completely altering some bods’ bizarre holiday ideas. Yes, we have seen some very lazy bods turning up, sucking help like leeches and never even being polite enough to say “Thank you” to people taking the time out, helping to create THEIR holiday for them; but that’s just bikermates and the internet for you.

Use the internet for what it is good at, which is getting information and ideas. Then just get on with it. Nobody dies, or at least not very often.

Wapping said:

Yes, anyone can do all that, too.

But all this ‘just ride out of the door’ stuff (besides proving how big our bollocks are or were) doesn’t work for everyone.

.

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For groups of folk I imagine making it up as you go along wouldn't work well, I don't go off in groups generally but many do. These guys probably need a plan, as folk are helping with, not cause of bollocks size, just to stop them all standing in a service station on their phones arguing about hotel options and how close is the pub.

Plenty of singletons turn up here, too…. And in the accommodation section, desperate to find a biker friendly, secure hotel, often in Leicester.

And yup, I slid the bit about ‘big bollocks’ in, just to get a reaction.

Wapping said:

Plenty of singletons turn up here, too…. And in the accommodation section, desperate to find a biker friendly, secure hotel, often in Leicester.

And yup, I slid the bit about ‘big bollocks’ in, just to get a reaction.

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I do love it when peeps ask for a biker friendly hotel.
I don’t think I’ve ever been to a biker unfriendly hotel.From experience, it’s usually the ignorant pillock sat on the bike who may cause some unfriendliness from the staff rather than his mode of transport.Usually shortly followed by the hunt for steak and FRITZ and proper beer-none of that Belgian shite !!!

The Solana in Benidorm looks nice, safe with proper beer and grub

Northern jock said:

The Solana in Benidorm looks nice, safe with proper beer and grub

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And you can swap two wheels for four on arrival I’d i madge in.

There is lots to be said for going in the car in the first place.