Thanks adm1. Your plan is very much up the same strasse as what we wish to do. I'll PM you shortly for GPX routes.
Black Forest Route Suggestions?
- Thread starter Flashman
- Start date
Thanks adm1. Your plan is very much up the same strasse as what we wish to do. I'll PM you shortly for GPX routes.
get the tunnel out of the way on Sunday afternoon or evening. Stay in one of the chain hotels on the other side. Wapping and I are fans of the Ibis Budget in St Omer, about an hour from the tunnel. This sets you up for that diagonal route mentioned above, taking in the Ardennes and Nord Vosges before crossing the Rhine into the Black Forest by teatime on the Monday. Well, kaffe and kuchen time as many German hotels will have coffee and cake for you to enjoy between 4-6pm, often free.
https://goo.gl/maps/4DcWH7p2PUUhpxo29 is the route I would use to do it in one day. No tolls and mostly dual carriageway, autoroute and a bit of unrestricted autobahn. Last bit in the Nord Vosges including Bitche!
Now we are cooking on gas, as the ‘ring seems to have dropped from favour. Don’t worry, it won’t close for a few years yet.
Day 1. North Wales to over the Channel. Like Wessie, I favour this as it saves time. One hour instant saving, with the time difference. Up to one hour (certainly no less than 40 minutes) with the crossing, when you factor in checking-in and getting off the train. Plus saving however long it is to get from your hotel to Folkestone. Call it two hours to be conservative. That, down the motorway is not less than 100 miles saved. All of this hinges on when you leave north Wales and can jump on the train. To give you a rough idea, Caernarfon to St Omer direct is about 420 miles.
As Wessie says, St Omer is a good enough destination. Fuel up on arrival in the 24 hour petrol station in the town. Do it on arrival, irrespective of how tired you might be, as it will save buggering around in the morning. Similarly, the Ibis Budget is a good choice. Parking is easy and it’s open 24/7.
Don’t bother with breakfast the next day. Get cracking on early and stop for a bite after say 90 minutes.
Day 2. Is St Omer to, as the others suggest, somewhere like Frieburg-im-Breslau. That using a mixture of motorways and ‘scenic’ roads is 400 miles. There is a bit of a theme emerging here. The motorway sections are: St Omer to Cambrai (about an hour) and then at the end between say, Reigel-am-Keiserstuhl and Frieburg-im-Breslau. Frieburg-im-Breslau, is on the western edge of the Black Forest, about half way down. It is not necessarily a ‘must do’ destination, we are just picking a spot in the huge area that is the Black Forest.
You can add in more motorways by altering the route, staying on the motorway past Cambrai.
Day 3. Hooning in the Black Forest.
Day 4. Hooning in the Black Forest.
Day 5. Black Forest to Calais.
Day 6. Calais to north Wales.
Roughly:
Comment:
A. Only you and your friends know if two back-to-back 400 plus mile days are even doable. Putting in more motorway by going down to say Reims, then Nancy, before cutting across to Frieburg-im-Breslau, saves time and is about the same distance. If you do go to Nancy, think very carefully before riding through the place! The A33 motorway around the town / city is fine.
B. You might well want to add in an extra day, as (bar the two days in the Black Forest) there is not a lot of slack in it, not least as you always have the north Wales to Calais and back to north Wales twin legs to add in. That is why I kept asking you about the days available. Even half a day slack is useful, trust me.
C. If you add in a day, you can break day two and / or days four and five up a bit, by perhaps knocking 100 miles off each. In other words, break-up St Omer to Frieburg-im-Breslau a bit, perhaps and go a bit deeper into the Black Forest on what will then be day three. If you can add in two days, better still, obviously.
D. If you do go deeper into the Black Forest and end up at the southern end, don’t forget you have to come home again. It is a common mistake on these pages, as all some fellows think about (understandably perhaps) is going to places. It’s as common as bods forgetting to add in their journey times from and back to their house.
PS The Calais > St Quentin > Sedan > Verdun > Commercy > Neufchateau > Charmes > Colmar > Frieburg-im-Breisgau route does work too, but maybe over two days, not one. See B etc above. I went roughly that way when I went to the Vosges, but peeled off to Turckheim. I, too, stopped in Verdun overnight.
That route Calais > St Quentin > Sedan > Verdun > Commercy > Neufchateau > Charmes > Colmar > Frieburg-im-Breisgau is still 470 miles, so there is no getting around the distance. That much is certain. Here it is roughly:
Day 1. North Wales to over the Channel. Like Wessie, I favour this as it saves time. One hour instant saving, with the time difference. Up to one hour (certainly no less than 40 minutes) with the crossing, when you factor in checking-in and getting off the train. Plus saving however long it is to get from your hotel to Folkestone. Call it two hours to be conservative. That, down the motorway is not less than 100 miles saved. All of this hinges on when you leave north Wales and can jump on the train. To give you a rough idea, Caernarfon to St Omer direct is about 420 miles.
As Wessie says, St Omer is a good enough destination. Fuel up on arrival in the 24 hour petrol station in the town. Do it on arrival, irrespective of how tired you might be, as it will save buggering around in the morning. Similarly, the Ibis Budget is a good choice. Parking is easy and it’s open 24/7.
Don’t bother with breakfast the next day. Get cracking on early and stop for a bite after say 90 minutes.
Day 2. Is St Omer to, as the others suggest, somewhere like Frieburg-im-Breslau. That using a mixture of motorways and ‘scenic’ roads is 400 miles. There is a bit of a theme emerging here. The motorway sections are: St Omer to Cambrai (about an hour) and then at the end between say, Reigel-am-Keiserstuhl and Frieburg-im-Breslau. Frieburg-im-Breslau, is on the western edge of the Black Forest, about half way down. It is not necessarily a ‘must do’ destination, we are just picking a spot in the huge area that is the Black Forest.
You can add in more motorways by altering the route, staying on the motorway past Cambrai.
Day 3. Hooning in the Black Forest.
Day 4. Hooning in the Black Forest.
Day 5. Black Forest to Calais.
Day 6. Calais to north Wales.
Roughly:
Comment:
A. Only you and your friends know if two back-to-back 400 plus mile days are even doable. Putting in more motorway by going down to say Reims, then Nancy, before cutting across to Frieburg-im-Breslau, saves time and is about the same distance. If you do go to Nancy, think very carefully before riding through the place! The A33 motorway around the town / city is fine.
B. You might well want to add in an extra day, as (bar the two days in the Black Forest) there is not a lot of slack in it, not least as you always have the north Wales to Calais and back to north Wales twin legs to add in. That is why I kept asking you about the days available. Even half a day slack is useful, trust me.
C. If you add in a day, you can break day two and / or days four and five up a bit, by perhaps knocking 100 miles off each. In other words, break-up St Omer to Frieburg-im-Breslau a bit, perhaps and go a bit deeper into the Black Forest on what will then be day three. If you can add in two days, better still, obviously.
D. If you do go deeper into the Black Forest and end up at the southern end, don’t forget you have to come home again. It is a common mistake on these pages, as all some fellows think about (understandably perhaps) is going to places. It’s as common as bods forgetting to add in their journey times from and back to their house.
PS The Calais > St Quentin > Sedan > Verdun > Commercy > Neufchateau > Charmes > Colmar > Frieburg-im-Breisgau route does work too, but maybe over two days, not one. See B etc above. I went roughly that way when I went to the Vosges, but peeled off to Turckheim. I, too, stopped in Verdun overnight.
That route Calais > St Quentin > Sedan > Verdun > Commercy > Neufchateau > Charmes > Colmar > Frieburg-im-Breisgau is still 470 miles, so there is no getting around the distance. That much is certain. Here it is roughly:
Wapping's suggestions are top notch as usual.
I did spend a few days in the Black Forest back in May, and most of the routes we took around there were lifted from Motorrad Magazine and others, still, courtesy of Wapping.
Similar route towards there (selected in black):
A mix of a little of motorway the first miles (<150 I think) and then flowing "b-roads" all the way to Baden Baden. Most of it was actually calculated by the XT. First time I used the "curvy roads" functionality as I didn't manage to plan in advance that section and turned out to be a very pleasant ride.
I slept near Calais on Friday night (crossing late after work) and started early the morning after. Was in Baden Baden for the late afternoon.
I can export this to GPX and post it here if it could be of use.
Ignore the million waypoints in the southern aera. That's fucking Garmin Explore's fault.
I did spend a few days in the Black Forest back in May, and most of the routes we took around there were lifted from Motorrad Magazine and others, still, courtesy of Wapping.
Similar route towards there (selected in black):
A mix of a little of motorway the first miles (<150 I think) and then flowing "b-roads" all the way to Baden Baden. Most of it was actually calculated by the XT. First time I used the "curvy roads" functionality as I didn't manage to plan in advance that section and turned out to be a very pleasant ride.
I slept near Calais on Friday night (crossing late after work) and started early the morning after. Was in Baden Baden for the late afternoon.
I can export this to GPX and post it here if it could be of use.
Ignore the million waypoints in the southern aera. That's fucking Garmin Explore's fault.
I have been to the Black Forest a number of times and used it many more as a stop-over to / from the Alps.
I can do it in a day - but after the first time I did that I decided never again, as for me it is about 9 hours of riding, with all but @30 minutes of that on Motorway and dual carriageway, with the tunnel crossing to slow things further - ended up about 13 hours door-to-door and was so mind numbingly boring - as well as feeling very tired and uncomforable towards the end of the day.
Your long day out to Europe will pay dividends, on way out I don't find them too much of a bother with all the excitement, I tend to make the last days return a bit shorter though, as you will be pissed off enough having to come home, the nature of a boring run hat ends on congested UK motorways makes this worse.
You can Also head via the Ardennes and Luxembourg, and if you got up really early on day one you could probably get to Bastogne, from here you can sample some great Lux roads and pop out at the SE corner of Lux and head towards the Vosges Nord to the Black Forest.
With 2 days to get home you only have 2 days for the BF - and its green for a reason, so having at least 2 days there is handy, if you can add a day it will help, but you could take a week and have it all wet, I have done 5 day trips with barely a patch of dry road and others where it has barely dropped below 30c in these parts of Europe, still and extra day cannot make things worse - except the number of hangovers if it does just rain.
IMHO (and that of most my riding buddies) the Lux Roads are a bit better, but the BF is stunningly beautiful, so this way in is a win / win.
If I was going there with a group this is the route I ould use:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/5648587
Some great Lux roads and a few castles along the way, apart from 1st couple of hours out of Calais not much motorway, and you could reduce this a little further - I am not massively familiar with the bit between Lux and the Black Forest, so others might be able to impove that section, however groups don't move that fast in my experience so this route is good as long as you can get about 3 hours from Calais on day one - and take into account average speeds will drop a lot on those Lux twisties, with maybe slightly longer breaks than you might have in a boring service station. Lux fuel is (relatively) cheap too.
2 looping BF routes in this Folder:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/profile/routes/485#6226635/name/asc
A faster route back looks like this:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/6913654
Stop at St Quentin or Arras for a fairly easy last day, you could also reverse the first days route, maybe slightly different, or stop at say Boillon (Hotel de la post) - but I would actually press on towards Mons, either head for the city if that's your thing, or a town / village close to Motorway, again to buy an easier last day. Ypres is another favourite last night for me with a very short run to Calais.
I can do it in a day - but after the first time I did that I decided never again, as for me it is about 9 hours of riding, with all but @30 minutes of that on Motorway and dual carriageway, with the tunnel crossing to slow things further - ended up about 13 hours door-to-door and was so mind numbingly boring - as well as feeling very tired and uncomforable towards the end of the day.
Your long day out to Europe will pay dividends, on way out I don't find them too much of a bother with all the excitement, I tend to make the last days return a bit shorter though, as you will be pissed off enough having to come home, the nature of a boring run hat ends on congested UK motorways makes this worse.
You can Also head via the Ardennes and Luxembourg, and if you got up really early on day one you could probably get to Bastogne, from here you can sample some great Lux roads and pop out at the SE corner of Lux and head towards the Vosges Nord to the Black Forest.
With 2 days to get home you only have 2 days for the BF - and its green for a reason, so having at least 2 days there is handy, if you can add a day it will help, but you could take a week and have it all wet, I have done 5 day trips with barely a patch of dry road and others where it has barely dropped below 30c in these parts of Europe, still and extra day cannot make things worse - except the number of hangovers if it does just rain.
IMHO (and that of most my riding buddies) the Lux Roads are a bit better, but the BF is stunningly beautiful, so this way in is a win / win.
If I was going there with a group this is the route I ould use:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/5648587
Some great Lux roads and a few castles along the way, apart from 1st couple of hours out of Calais not much motorway, and you could reduce this a little further - I am not massively familiar with the bit between Lux and the Black Forest, so others might be able to impove that section, however groups don't move that fast in my experience so this route is good as long as you can get about 3 hours from Calais on day one - and take into account average speeds will drop a lot on those Lux twisties, with maybe slightly longer breaks than you might have in a boring service station. Lux fuel is (relatively) cheap too.
2 looping BF routes in this Folder:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/profile/routes/485#6226635/name/asc
A faster route back looks like this:
https://www.myrouteapp.com/route/open/6913654
Stop at St Quentin or Arras for a fairly easy last day, you could also reverse the first days route, maybe slightly different, or stop at say Boillon (Hotel de la post) - but I would actually press on towards Mons, either head for the city if that's your thing, or a town / village close to Motorway, again to buy an easier last day. Ypres is another favourite last night for me with a very short run to Calais.
Thanks, er-minio.
There is absolutely no shame in using motorways; avoiding them for the sake of it is just silly.
Very often the local governments spent millions of pounds building and then maintaining them, for no other good reason than the alternative roads are bloody awful.
That being said, if I am on my own, setting my own departure times and stop only when I want / need to, without having to think of others, then - if the N and D roads look OK - I will avoid the motorways. For example, people moan about the country roads south of Calais but, if you are on your own and can crack on, then they can well be interesting. If though, the N and D roads look like junk on the map, with nothing more town after town after town, I will take the motorway and will certainly do so if I need to crack on, no matter how green bordered some bloke in Michelin has coloured them.
There is absolutely no shame in using motorways; avoiding them for the sake of it is just silly.
Very often the local governments spent millions of pounds building and then maintaining them, for no other good reason than the alternative roads are bloody awful.
That being said, if I am on my own, setting my own departure times and stop only when I want / need to, without having to think of others, then - if the N and D roads look OK - I will avoid the motorways. For example, people moan about the country roads south of Calais but, if you are on your own and can crack on, then they can well be interesting. If though, the N and D roads look like junk on the map, with nothing more town after town after town, I will take the motorway and will certainly do so if I need to crack on, no matter how green bordered some bloke in Michelin has coloured them.
Thanks Rasher.
OP, as you can see, everything everyone has said points to:
A. Crossing over to France ASAP on day one.
B. Then either a one day 400 plus mile motorway / national road bash to the Black Forest or breaking that leg into two.
The same applies to the reverse…… now look at your number of days, front door to front door.
Look forward to seeing your revised plan.
OP, as you can see, everything everyone has said points to:
A. Crossing over to France ASAP on day one.
B. Then either a one day 400 plus mile motorway / national road bash to the Black Forest or breaking that leg into two.
The same applies to the reverse…… now look at your number of days, front door to front door.
Look forward to seeing your revised plan.
Thanks very much Rasher, wessie, er-minio and Wapping, your posts have been really helpful. I will certainly use this information to create our own itinerary.
I will post back again when we have put an outline plan together for your comments. In the meantime, Happy New Year and safe riding in 2023
I will post back again when we have put an outline plan together for your comments. In the meantime, Happy New Year and safe riding in 2023
Have fun creating it and let us know what you land on, please.
Best wishes for the new year and the great holidays ahead.
Best wishes for the new year and the great holidays ahead.
I can.....let's try this using the MRA 'Share" and "Embed" functions....
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5886421?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5544786?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5546236?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5546174?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5544773?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5544805?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com//embed/route/5545048?lang=en"></iframe>
This, from a somewhat uncertain start, has turned into a very good thread. Not only has it shown how people plan their own holidays (and hopefully given the thread’s starter some good ideas to help plan his own) it’s shown me something I didn’t know about MyRoute. My thanks to everyone who has participated. Have a great new year.
I have done a bit of housekeeping / editing, to keep the thread just about on topic.
Anyone who wants to follow the maps vs GPS debate and pick up to tips on how to keep notes, can go here:
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/593190-Maps-or-GPS-or-both-and-how-to-keep-notes
Richard
Anyone who wants to follow the maps vs GPS debate and pick up to tips on how to keep notes, can go here:
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php/593190-Maps-or-GPS-or-both-and-how-to-keep-notes
Richard
As a litte update, if it can be of any use, I added the full track recording on here (bottom of the page) on my "travel notes", or you can download the GPX file here directly.
I have done a bit more editing
Moving Rasher’s excellent tips on estimating time and keeping a group together.
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...ting-time-and-trying-to-keep-a-group-together
Richard
Moving Rasher’s excellent tips on estimating time and keeping a group together.
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...ting-time-and-trying-to-keep-a-group-together
Richard
The day 2 route earlier - you could quickly visit the Duomant Ossuary if you have not before on the way out, and also consider taking ina bit of the Vosges if heading that far south in Black Forest
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com/embed/route/6916735?lang=en"></iframe>
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="286" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com/embed/route/6916735?lang=en"></iframe>
Last edited by a moderator:
And a bit more editing to move the excellent revelation of MyRouteApp’s ability to share routes via its ‘embed’ function.
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...-via-a-forum-or-website?p=6427207#post6427207
Richard
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...-via-a-forum-or-website?p=6427207#post6427207
Richard
Have a look at Day One - Waypoint 5 is the Duoaumant Ossuary on the way into Verdun. I do like the drop down towards Colmar and then head west towards VS though.
I think the basic problem still remains, that the fellow has four days to go Calais > Black Forest (where exactly TBA) > Calais, with an extra day tacked at either end to go north Wales > Calais and return. Total six days, door to door. It’s the two days lost in the UK, that is the real bitch.
Me? I still think (given the time constraints) he’d maybe be better of settling on somewhere a bit closer. Maybe the Morvan or a lot of the great riding to be had in the Ardennes. That though changes if:
A. He adds more days.
B. Maybe schleps on the motorways.
I’ll dig out a jaunt I did to the Morvan, over four days and lob it up here. It was in 2014 but I’ve done it since too, not least as it’s good for a short break such as this.
Calais > Ste Menehould for one night > Avalon (top of the Morvan) for two nights > A full day out in the Morvan > Back to Calais in one hit.
The thread is here:
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...ur-day-1000-mile-(or-more)-jaunt-no-motorways
The link doesn’t work though, as it was on an old Dropbox account I held.
I’ll have to try to dig it out from elsewhere, unless some kind soul took a copy of it?
Me? I still think (given the time constraints) he’d maybe be better of settling on somewhere a bit closer. Maybe the Morvan or a lot of the great riding to be had in the Ardennes. That though changes if:
A. He adds more days.
B. Maybe schleps on the motorways.
I’ll dig out a jaunt I did to the Morvan, over four days and lob it up here. It was in 2014 but I’ve done it since too, not least as it’s good for a short break such as this.
Calais > Ste Menehould for one night > Avalon (top of the Morvan) for two nights > A full day out in the Morvan > Back to Calais in one hit.
The thread is here:
https://www.ukgser.com/forums/showt...ur-day-1000-mile-(or-more)-jaunt-no-motorways
The link doesn’t work though, as it was on an old Dropbox account I held.
I’ll have to try to dig it out from elsewhere, unless some kind soul took a copy of it?
Here we go.
I found near enough a version of it. It’s a bit corrupted as I had to use my iPad to go from Dropbox, via Pocket Earth (where it displays perfectly) into MyRoute, where it picked up two spurious straight lines. It also has a motorway section Cambrai > Calais which doesn’t match quite with the old post from 2014. With a bit of time and firing up my Mac, I might be able to find a better version or better still the original in the post above.
But it gives a pretty good idea of something that works over four days.
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="287" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com/embed/route/6917806?lang=en&unit=mi"></iframe>
PS I think I have worked out why it has the motorway section. The original BaseCamp file probably has four or more routes on it, one for each day and an option, using the motorway. The software can’t split them individually, so it displays them all together. The straight lines are just a glitch in the conversions from one software package into another.
That being said, it does have the corrections I made after first doing the trip in 2014, so it’s probably not too bad. I would have started in central London on day one (ie. caught an early train, rather than going over the evening before to start from St Omer) and come back to London on day four, all the way from Avallon.
I am older and bit wiser now but doing it the old way doesn’t kill you, too much.
PPS Loving this embed thing.
I found near enough a version of it. It’s a bit corrupted as I had to use my iPad to go from Dropbox, via Pocket Earth (where it displays perfectly) into MyRoute, where it picked up two spurious straight lines. It also has a motorway section Cambrai > Calais which doesn’t match quite with the old post from 2014. With a bit of time and firing up my Mac, I might be able to find a better version or better still the original in the post above.
But it gives a pretty good idea of something that works over four days.
<iframe style="border:none;overflow:hidden" width="600" height="287" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" src="https://www.myrouteapp.com/embed/route/6917806?lang=en&unit=mi"></iframe>
PS I think I have worked out why it has the motorway section. The original BaseCamp file probably has four or more routes on it, one for each day and an option, using the motorway. The software can’t split them individually, so it displays them all together. The straight lines are just a glitch in the conversions from one software package into another.
That being said, it does have the corrections I made after first doing the trip in 2014, so it’s probably not too bad. I would have started in central London on day one (ie. caught an early train, rather than going over the evening before to start from St Omer) and come back to London on day four, all the way from Avallon.
I am older and bit wiser now but doing it the old way doesn’t kill you, too much.
PPS Loving this embed thing.
I really like the Black Forest, as numerous visits / stop offs suggest, but it is a fair way from the UK, last year I did my first post pandemic / post baby foreign trip and had 5 days, with a late (by my usual standards) start (get kid up / say goodbye) so got to Black Forest late on day two, a day looping around (washed out early afternoon and damp at start of day) on day 3 then a blast to Bastogne via Ardennes.
This 4th day started in torrential rain, but soon dried out, it was an OK days ride, generally getting better as the day wore on, and the last couple of hours acroos Luxembourg was fantastic. Then the blast home.
In reality a days worth of really good riding, even if weather had been perfect it would of been 1.5 days of great riding and half a day of OK stuff from a 4.75 day trip, it was excellent because I wanted a TRIP, not a short blast, and 2 days to get smewhere gave me that feeling. On paper it made no sense, but it fulfilled my hearts desire.....
....This year will be 5 days to Luxembourg, in via Ardennes (Bouillon) onto Eifel (Bitburg) via best Luxembourg Twisties, back out across Lux and Ardennes, That is 3.5 days of great riding from a 5 day trip.
If I had 7 days I would like to spend 3 nights in Black Forest and 2 in Luxembourg (pre-pandemic I had been doing 2 Luxembourg trips a year for a few years so not so bothered) with one night being required on way out, 8 days would be perfect, 3 nights in each area
I like the Morvan (another area I use on way to Alps) but it is a 4-5 hour all motorway schlep from Calais, whereas it is easy for me to be off the motorways and into the Ardennes just after lunch on day one which is what makes this region so attractive, just a lot of "bang-for-your-buck" if you only have 4-5 days.
Lux has the perfect roads, and the light traffic, the Forest has the scenery, with every village being stunningly beautiful, and the roads are generally very good - certainly way better than the UK!
This 4th day started in torrential rain, but soon dried out, it was an OK days ride, generally getting better as the day wore on, and the last couple of hours acroos Luxembourg was fantastic. Then the blast home.
In reality a days worth of really good riding, even if weather had been perfect it would of been 1.5 days of great riding and half a day of OK stuff from a 4.75 day trip, it was excellent because I wanted a TRIP, not a short blast, and 2 days to get smewhere gave me that feeling. On paper it made no sense, but it fulfilled my hearts desire.....
....This year will be 5 days to Luxembourg, in via Ardennes (Bouillon) onto Eifel (Bitburg) via best Luxembourg Twisties, back out across Lux and Ardennes, That is 3.5 days of great riding from a 5 day trip.
If I had 7 days I would like to spend 3 nights in Black Forest and 2 in Luxembourg (pre-pandemic I had been doing 2 Luxembourg trips a year for a few years so not so bothered) with one night being required on way out, 8 days would be perfect, 3 nights in each area
I like the Morvan (another area I use on way to Alps) but it is a 4-5 hour all motorway schlep from Calais, whereas it is easy for me to be off the motorways and into the Ardennes just after lunch on day one which is what makes this region so attractive, just a lot of "bang-for-your-buck" if you only have 4-5 days.
Lux has the perfect roads, and the light traffic, the Forest has the scenery, with every village being stunningly beautiful, and the roads are generally very good - certainly way better than the UK!
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