Maps or GPS or both and how to keep notes

The recording of tracks is definitely a benefit. I too have compared them with where I had planned to ride, just to see where the differences lay. I’ve also used the device’s ability to record a track, to record a ride where I have simply followed someone, particularly if I think it might be handy to use on my own at some point.
 
You dirty, filthy Luddite!

That’s pretty much what I do with my planning (such as it exists) being simply looking at a map, checking the weather in the areas I’ll be riding through, checking for hotel availability in my chosen destination then winging it as to how I get there. I like riding along, seeing a road heading off towards some hills or forestry then working out roughly where it is on the map and whether it fits in with my loose plans then going for it.

It’s not a system that’s suitable for groups or agreed stopovers but most of the time I’m either on my own or with my wife who always starts the day by telling me she’s following me so I need to decide what I want to do. She’s then got the perfect cop out if it goes wrong because it was all my fault but I retort by telling her she should have spoken up earlier if she wasn’t happy :D

Sounds a bit like me and I have found some cracking roads and passes that way
I remember 4-5 years ago with a few guys from here in the Austrian Tyrol - they were going one way and I just fancied riding the valley floor for a bit, so we just did our own thing that day
Riding along from our overnight stay in Vipiteno towards Sillian I stopped for a coffee and spotted the Passo Stalle on the map
Roughy in a similar direction I followed that road over the Alpine meadows (cue Sound of Music scenery) and found the Lago di Anteselva, at the start of the Stalle and the road was so small it was signal controlled every 30 mins (no drama as the lake views were stunning) and when it was our turn, the filtered to the front of the queue (past all the cars & motor homes) and I had the whole pass to myself, without any fear of oncoming traffic (as it was alternate one way, every 30 mins)
I had a ball, carving up the bends with only me on the road
Great pass and one I have never heard of since in any guide books etc
Lunched at the top of the Pass and had a great day
Had I not had my map on the tank, I doubt that I would have ‘browsed’ the Passo Stalle (certainly not a 4” GPS screen, set on a 1:2/3 km scale range)
Then onwards to Lienz and a browse around the KTM shop there, before arriving at the Gasthof Hochalmspitz in Malta to join the others for 3 nights there
I have ridden that Tyrol valley road from Vipiteno to Lienz & Spittal many, many times and still found something new to ride

So maps most definitely have their place on a tour
 
Having tracks is a powerful thing when traveling with people that have different paces.

I mostly travel on my own, so GPS tracks are used for bits I absolutely want to do, offroad parts, then the rest is due to what I want to do at the moment, etc, “make your own adventure”.

I also travel with an Italian friend at least twice a year (Germany above being one example). We both travel at a similar quick-ish pace. We follow each other. GPS is useful but not strictly necessary unless for finding hotels, going through cities or pointing towards very specifi routes we want to cover.

I also sometimes travel with a GS-equipped friend from the UK and he is SLOW.
Slow as in: if we go up and down a mountain, I have time to have a full meal before he catches up with me (happened a couple of times)… in that case the “agreement” is that I provide detailed routes for the trip, and the I wait/meet at specific points along the route because, trust me, I’m not gonna wait for anyone if I’m climbing a mountain pass (thing I can do once or twice a year) :)

GPS is a poweful tool. But you are not obliged to be a slave to the “thin purple line” :)

I also mostly use tracks these days… so… same story as following a paper map, just easier to read, you Luddites :)

Oh, happy new year guys!

Thanks that is a good tip and tracks I can see where they would have a place in a road trip now (use tracks off-road on my Montana)
 
So maps most definitely have their place on a tour

I love maps, I've used them for cycle orienteering, bike travel, car travel, working in a helicopter for a few year etc....but you're missing a trick by not combining the two as most riders do. Give it a proper go, use a map when you fancy it, and maybe the GPS to get you from where you are to where you need to be to start the 'map found' section of riding. (I suspect you know all this tho)
 
Thanks that is a good tip and tracks I can see where they would have a place in a road trip now (use tracks off-road on my Montana)

Your phone (assuming it’s not one with a dial, sat on the sideboard) will record tracks pretty efficiently, too.
 
Yes. There is quite a few phone apps to record tracks. Or a cycle computer or iWatch or Suunto could do in a pinch.
 
I’ve never tried it but I’d imagine Strava would be as good as anything for recording where you’ve been and then expanding to view other possibilities in the area.

I use it for walking and cycling so maybe I’m missing a trick :nenau
 
Andy: not sure. Strava allows motocross activity, but not sure it would work well for long riding. There was another software I found a couple of years ago (for a while I dreamt about building a strava for motorbikes, the reconsidered). I’ll see if I can find it.

Calimoto might have this feature too (I don’t use it, not sure).
 
I had a data logging app that I used when I was doing a lot of green laning that allowed me to pinpoint my location and speed at any given point so if anyone shopped me for either being on a bridleway or speeding I could prove what I was doing if by chance it was entirely legal but I can’t remember what it was.

Again, I didn’t actually try it on the road but that was mainly because I ride like a twat and would sooner not have anything on my phone that could hang me out to dry :D
 
Again, I didn’t actually try it on the road but that was mainly because I ride like a twat and would sooner not have anything on my phone that could hang me out to dry

Same here, riding-wise, but never bothered. And I've never been asked to provide GPS data. And I've been summoned to court already :D
 
No, what you really need is a Filofax so you can easily add and remove pages in different areas so when you go to the Black Forest and find a new hotel, bar or restaurant you file the information in the correct place. You can also remove the relevant page and use the scan app you so conveniently have on your phone.

Your little black book is a 1980s Filofax isn’t it?

Gmail is my hotel archive as they are almost all booked by email or website with email confirmation. I create a folder for each year then subfolders if needed. Even the trip I organised with Colin that you went on in 2010 is still there...
 
Sounds a bit like me and I have found some cracking roads and passes that way
I remember 4-5 years ago with a few guys from here in the Austrian Tyrol - they were going one way and I just fancied riding the valley floor for a bit, so we just did our own thing that day
Riding along from our overnight stay in Vipiteno towards Sillian I stopped for a coffee and spotted the Passo Stalle on the map
Roughy in a similar direction I followed that road over the Alpine meadows (cue Sound of Music scenery) and found the Lago di Anteselva, at the start of the Stalle and the road was so small it was signal controlled every 30 mins (no drama as the lake views were stunning) and when it was our turn, the filtered to the front of the queue (past all the cars & motor homes) and I had the whole pass to myself, without any fear of oncoming traffic (as it was alternate one way, every 30 mins)
I had a ball, carving up the bends with only me on the road
Great pass and one I have never heard of since in any guide books etc
Lunched at the top of the Pass and had a great day
Had I not had my map on the tank, I doubt that I would have ‘browsed’ the Passo Stalle (certainly not a 4” GPS screen, set on a 1:2/3 km scale range)
Then onwards to Lienz and a browse around the KTM shop there, before arriving at the Gasthof Hochalmspitz in Malta to join the others for 3 nights there
I have ridden that Tyrol valley road from Vipiteno to Lienz & Spittal many, many times and still found something new to ride

So maps most definitely have their place on a tour

I agree, maps are great.

But everything you did there could have been done using a GPS device with a map. For example, when you decided to ride on your own along the valley floor, you could have looked at your map, seen the pass and thought to yourself “It goes to roughly where I need to go” and created a GPS route to take you along it. That would have been the same as colouring in the route on a paper map or writing ‘After town XYZ, take pass ABC on the right to 123’ on a sheet of paper and stuck it in your tank bad, old skool style.

You seem to think that people with GPS devices don’t know how to use a map, relying exclusively on a device to take them from A to B, avoiding motorways, unmade tracks and U-turns. That might be true in some (possibly many) instances but it’s equally true of bods that don’t own a GPS device either. On the same theme, you seem to say that everyone with a GPS device follows the magenta line blindly. That might be just as true of someone who has highlighted a route on a paper map or listed towns on a sheet of paper.

An argument might be made that bods using a GPS, running a route A to B provided to them by the device (ie with no input from the owner) might be more inclined to to go ‘off route’ than someone with a map or hand written instructions, simply because they know that their device (depending on its settings) will always take them to destination B, no matter where they go in between. Indeed, this is often a central theme in the GPS section, where bods sing the praises of the recalculation function. Ironically, there is then a bunch of bods who get very frustrated when the same recalculation function leaves them very confused. But that, more often than not, is down to human error and not knowing how very advanced - though sometimes quite dumb - GPS devices actually work.

I could bet that there will be some bods, using their hand written piece of paper, listing towns to ride through, equally confused when the sign post at a road junction does not list any of them. Then them having to dig their map out, work out where they might be (praying they have the right scale and detail) and wondering why they are doing this in the rain, with four blokes moaning or tittering behind him. We’ve all been there and done it, I’m sure.

You and I love our maps, no question of that. I love my GPS device too, and have done for years. Equally, I love the maps / route creation software that some of the now very good app’s offer. You can see in the ‘Tell me how to get to the Black Forest’ thread, how easy it was for adm1 to share some routes from MyRoute. I never knew it could do that in the flash of an eye. When I have shared routes with the forum in the past, I have had to laboriously write them out or host them on Dropbox. One simple app will now do it for me. That, whether we like it or not, is progress.

Not least, I like the way that, with a bit of imagination and help from Google, lots more information can be dialled up at the touch of a key pad. If I want to know 10 great things to see and do in Provence, north Yorkshire or Thuringia, I can ask Google for suggestions. If I like the idea of seeing one of them, I can mark its electronic location and create a bespoke route to take me to the front door. I can even check the location’s front door in Street View, if I want to *. That I can do much more besides, is just a bonus. In a similar way, if when riding along, I pass by a nice cafe or town but can’t stop, I have been known to tap on the GPS screen on the move to mark its position. I then tidy-up this electronic pin drop later. I have lost count of the number of times, riding along, wondering where to stop, this little pin (perhaps made years before and forgotten about) will pop up to remind me. I can then chose whether or not to stop there. That is made really easy on a GPS device. Similarly, on the move I have marked some really duff roads which looked great on a map (we all make mistakes), as a reminder later to look for something better if I ever went that way again. The great thing is, electronics does not forget.

I am the first to moan that modern GPS devices - with umpteen infotainment functions - and the whole connectivity thing (phones, music, texts, tyre pressures, lean angles, service due dates…… the list is endless) on motorbikes has got out of hand. But, taking away all that junk, leaving just a now very powerful (but often just very dumb) GPS device, when used properly, is a great aid to enjoying riding a motorcycle over longer distances. Hopefully you’ll get to see that when you unbox and start to use your XT.



* A great aid when it comes to deciding whether you really do want the hotel by the railway sidings, adjacent to the sewage works.
 
I use a combination of maps and GPS. maps allow you to see a greater area and find good routes. Gps is not a be all and end all. I plan routes etc but am happy to detour from the route. best use of Gps is to find a final destination for example, camp site or hotel in a strange town.
 
…… best use of Gps is to find a final destination for example, camp site or hotel in a strange town.

You can do that with a phone or by the old fashioned method of asking someone, preferably waving a scribbled piece of paper in the air and shouting “Do you speak English?”.

I watched a friend of mine (we were looking for a small ferry) do that with an elderly German lady…. “Where is the Rhine!!!!?”. I think it reminded her of 1945.
 
I still take maps on trips but they have not been used greatly after leaving home for a few years. They would provide a back-up if the electronics packed up.

I have a Zumo 390 satnav, a cheap Moto phone and a cheap 10" android tablet. The latter has taken over from using maps to plan daytrips in a hotel bar and the phone is often used for detours during the day or to find fuel or food - google maps is more up to date than the Garmin database or any information printed on a map. With a bit of planning ahead to download Google maps tiles you do not even need a data signal.

I am pretty sure I would have been aware of the Passo Stalle as a possible route using my electronic devices as I have learnt to use them to my advantage but not follow them as if some sort of quasi-religious mantra. I still read road signs, sometimes the position of the sun and my own sense of direction to over-ride what appears the "wrong way". French one way systems being the perfect exemplar of the latter situation where 50m through a precinct can save you 2 miles!
 
I am in the same camp (oooh….matron) as Wessie. I rarely look at the maps when away now but I have them as a safe fallback and to show bods where we are. I just use my iPad with its assorted mapping software all installed. It links seamlessly with Garmin Drive app for my XT and with BMW’s Connected app for my 1600. That my 1600 has a dreadful EMF problem is something else entirely. I also have a pencil and paper, sometimes just scribbling down place names to put onto the top of my tank bag.

I too still read the road signs, particularly as I can no longer read all the words on a GPS screen without glasses. This is particularly true of roundabout signs, where I’ll hear or see “Take the third exit”. I will look at the big roundabout sign (thankfully I can still read those) on the approach, to see:

A. Which exit it is ie. Where exit three is.

B. What the place name is

It helps to line me up on the approach and really is no different to using a map and a sheet of handwritten instructions. That being said, I now and again have to do a full lap, if I miss the exit, due to my subsequent pea brain inattention.

PS The ‘Black Forest’ thread, where this thread was born from, shows how useful GPS exchange of routes can be. Good luck writing that lot out to share.
 
I have some maps, my favourite is a large Alps map showing some great routes (came with a book in French) it is perfect for opening on a large table and talking to my bikermates about our routes and the passes along the way, or at an Alpine Hotel when talking to others we meet along the way etc.

I do detailed planning in My Route App, different overlays are great for different things - google shows many more places of interest, viewpoints, restaurants etc. Michelin has its green routes which are also worth checking out and maybe working in if your passing them on a "lesser" road. Google is pretty poor at telling this difference between a minor road and a goat track.

I use a PC with 2 large screens (well three with laptop screen) anyway, MRA on one screen and Google maps on the other - this allows me to do spot checks with street view if I am unsure of a particular bit of road, look at the outside of Hotels I am considering (whats the car park like, does the town look nice and that sort of thing)

Once rolling we load the Route AND Track to the Sat-Nav, ensuring we all have the exact same directions (track) to follow.

I also do a document with each day on a sheet, key waypoints listed with approx timings, likely lunch stops along with a screen print of the route - nowhere near as detailed a a map, but at any point in the trip I have a visual reference of where I am, and if I need to shortcut a bit due to weather it is easy to see roughly where I am and where I can re-route via. Lastly I put the hotel booking details at the end, I can tear this off and hand it to the person on reception if there is a language barrier issue.

I often put times on the waypoint names, anyone looking at my routes may have seen some, this just helps me keep an eye on timings, know where I should be stopping to eat, easy to plan to stop at say "Freiburg" for Lunch, then ride right through on Autopilot and then find your in the middle of nowhere for an hour, and then everything is shut at the next town.

"Fuel Ahead" is another I may use for remote places where fuel is harder to find, a good reminder to fill up before you get 20 miles past the fuel station for the light to come on and you realise you really ought to go back rather than risk going forward.

A lot depends on the kind of trip, who I am with and what they are riding, with the Mrs we know our bikes fuel ranges, we know how long we can go between stops and don't care too much when we eat & drink, planning for a group I do a lot more, try and have nice places to stop, take in viewpoints and stuff, I may well have stopped and looked at Vianden Castle ten times before, someone else may have never left the UK on a bike before.

For me the Nav does a pretty good job of ensuring I am in the right place at the the right time, taking the right roads, not too many missed / wrong turns, also handy I can use it to play music & make and take phone calls on the move when I have lost one of my bikermates ;-)
 
My way has been fine for touring since the later 1980’s, so will stick with it
I have no interest in MRA or Kurviger at present
I never use a bespoke GPS planned daily route as I find them too restrictive & lack the ability to deviate (seem plenty slavishly follow them, often going around in circles and every end & turn)
I have a GPS for speed and altitude etc and may use it when I get closer to a specific destination
Maps and place names suffice, together with the ability to read road signs works well enough
Hats off to those that do

Same here.
 
I’ve moved “backwards” from mra and such to google maps for trip planning (pc) and navigation (iphone). It’s useful having the traffic info and for avoiding blocked roads “live”, and accourate eta’s etc. It’s also much easier to make changes on the fly… “you guys should use this road to such and such place” from a local, or “let’s just skip that bit” for example.

To achieve this I plan each days activity on Google maps, then copy the full url into a sheet saved on Dropbox. When I click on the link it opens the route on the phone ready to navigate. I also print each day’s trip and out it in the tank bag for reference, plus any notes like hotel / campsite bookings, ferry ticket references, etc.

It’s also a great research tool… whenever I hear about a place I’d like to visit someday I save them in Google maps, so when planning a tour it’s easier to string together a route.

Nav 5/6 and gpx tracks wasn’t flexible and I kept getting stuck in traffic as there was no automatic traffic routing or live information.

The various apps weren’t as robust and didn’t have the database of places to visit. And they cost money to use (unlike Google maps).
 


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