Audio Diagnostic Please. It doesn't sound right and has no drive...

[Lawrence_NZ]

Hello all,

I'm after some experienced ear feedback on how broken my 2005 GS1200 is.

I lost drive when shifting from 3rd to 4th with a spectacular crunch and wail but managed to coast over to a safe spot for a pick up and tow to a mechanic. They said it would be too expensive for them to diagnose fully based on the age of the bike and the likely nature of the problem. As it is sat in my garage and I have a torque wrench and YouTube, I thought I'd see if this was a fixable issue before sending to Valhalla.

hoping this link works which shows a ignition turn on and the noise. My suspicions are drive shaft obviously as there is a loss of drive but whether this is splines shredded or a simple drive shaft replacement is beyond me.

Sitting on about 120k kms, everything else is working fine, I'd rather keep it going as the engine is still strong and I gave it a polish and a tank of fuel only a month ago so that would be a real shame to waste.

Thoughts on the cause would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Lawrence

 

[Smiffypr]

Is that noise with it in gear, in neutral, or both? Is it higher pitched in a higher gear?

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

Is that noise with it in gear, in neutral, or both? Is it higher pitched in a higher gear?

That's in neutral, in gear had no change in noise but if it does when I try it again, I'll post a new clip. To me it sounds like bits of useful metal grinding around where it shouldn't...

 

[capers1962]

Can’t see the rear wheel turning so maybe not the drive shaft. It does however sound similar to the starter motor not disengaging after starting, but I may be wrong.

 

[DrFarkoff]

Sorry to say that was about as useful as a Chocolate teapot to aid in diagnosing your problem!

Is that in gear or neutral ?

What happens if you do it again and you pull in the clutch etc etc

Sounds like the starter is stuck engaging

OR the centre splines have pulled out of the clutch!

 

[DrFarkoff]

Sorry to say that was about as useful as a Chocolate teapot to aid in diagnosing your problem!

Is that in gear or neutral ?

What happens if you do it again and you pull in the clutch etc etc

Sounds like the starter is stuck engaging

OR the centre splines have pulled out of the clutch!

As a matter of Fact before you send it to the scrap yard

How much would a similar bike cost you ????

So if a clutch is a grand

Or a Driveshaft is £500 would it not be worth the repair ?

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

As a matter of Fact before you send it to the scrap yard

How much would a similar bike cost you ????

So if a clutch is a grand

Or a Driveshaft is £500 would it not be worth the repair ?

I'll give her a full work out on the stand tonight and see if there is any difference in behaviour. From the complete loss of drive at the point of failure, I suspected there would be no difference. In the heat of the moment I tried all the gears available up and down the range and none of them gave me anything if that is useful for now.

As to value, $5k NZ a few years back when I bought with 100k on the clock so about 2.5k GBP. Looking at aftermarket drive shafts, they appear to be 1.5k new so a second hand one would serve me well.

Clutch replacement is beyond me based on it appearing to take the back half of the bike off to get in there. Likewise, replacing/repairing the splines at the engine side is out of my league.

 

[Smiffypr]

I also thought it sounded like a starter motor stuck in engagement. If the noise is there in neutral, it rules out it being the drive shaft.
Not sure what the arrangement is these "modern" twins, but could the clutch friction material have come off and lodged around the starter gear? Is there an inspection hole for checking the travel of the clutch release arm to assess clutch wear?

 

[Steptoe]

That noise isn’t the starter motor - it sounds like what’s left of the worn out clutch/gearbox input shaft splines rubbing against each other.,….

 

[EPG_19]

sounds fucked and needs to go to a dealer.

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

y

sounds fucked and needs to go to a dealer.

yep, my local BMW dealers are the ones who sent me home. Small town so only the one in a 200KM radius

 

[Bem]

That noise isn’t the starter motor - it sounds like what’s left of the worn out clutch/gearbox input shaft splines rubbing against each other.,….

This man knows what he is talking about.

I suspect your dealer was being kind in sending you home - assuming they are a Motorrad dealer - at £120/hr you could get a big bill in no time which tells you nothing more than "its broken and will cost a lot".
It might be an opportunity for you to learn more about your bike, esp if you have a "friend" who has some mechanical knowledge to help you.
Start with the simple things that anyone can do - drain the oil separately from the engine and gearbox and let it sit overnight to see if there are any funny bits in there. Take off the rear wheel, drop the final drive and have a fiddle/fondle with the drive shaft. does anything seem graunchy/grouchy?

These actions will not devalue what you have left and might set you on the path to enlightenment.

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

This man knows what he is talking about.

I suspect your dealer was being kind in sending you home - assuming they are a Motorrad dealer - at £120/hr you could get a big bill in no time which tells you nothing more than "its broken and will cost a lot".
It might be an opportunity for you to learn more about your bike, esp if you have a "friend" who has some mechanical knowledge to help you.
Start with the simple things that anyone can do - drain the oil separately from the engine and gearbox and let it sit overnight to see if there are any funny bits in there. Take off the rear wheel, drop the final drive and have a fiddle/fondle with the drive shaft. does anything seem graunchy/grouchy?

These actions will not devalue what you have left and might set you on the path to enlightenment.

That is my plan but if it is diagnosable from the symptoms and I know it is deep in the depths I'd rather have it in one piece to sell on as a project.

Updated video of the clutch used and first gear engaged. I didn't let the clutch out in first gear on the stand, this wheel spin was fully clutch pulled. Revs had less impact on the noise than the clutch.

 

[dirtybiker]

As above, perhaps remove the rear wheel, final drive and even the swinging arm / shaft drive housing. All fairly easy to do.
Give you access to the output shaft from the back of the engine.
You can then see if the output shaft is turning at all and if so with or without the noise.

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

As above, perhaps remove the rear wheel, final drive and even the swinging arm / shaft drive housing. All fairly easy to do.
Give you access to the output shaft from the back of the engine.
You can then see if the output shaft is turning at all and if so with or without the noise.

I've seen enough how to videos to get me in there. Read the tips about getting the shaft out so nothing really to lose.

 

[dirtybiker]

I've seen enough how to videos to get me in there. Read the tips about getting the shaft out so nothing really to lose.

Good luck with it mate. As you say nothing to lose.
Keep updating your thread, there are some very knowledgeable chaps on the forum.

 

[Bem]

Clutchety bits.
Suggest you don`t start it again until you have a better idea of the problem.

And the word from Mr Steptoe is........

 

[botus]

if we have no drive anywhere anymore ... could be clutch, box, drive shaft or bevel a secondhand box can be bought for £300

 

[Lawrence_NZ]

So I found an hour to poke in the final drive. The oil was less black than I was expecting and the splines and the drive shaft could have been a lot worse. The back end dropped off and drained mostly onto the garage floor hence the small amount of oil collected...

Interestingly, removing the rear wheel gave the additional piece of info that the gears did not seem to be engaging. Previously, cracking the wheel nuts was no issue in first gear. This time, there was vibration but not enough resistance to crack the bolts. I had to wedge the wheel to allow enough force to crack it. I guess dropping off the centre stand would also have done the trick. Neutral had minor resistance as expected.

I think a clean up of the splines and a re-grase would have this end looking respectable.

I bought a litre of final drive oil prior to dropping the final drive. Now I'm thinking that will have to go on the shelf as the problem certainly lies deeper within.

 

[botus]

wow do we have to go one week at a time

drain the gearbox fluid and see how many bits come out.... a clutch that loses drive through wear would normally still allow a lot of torque (but not enough to rip up hills) and they don't normally self destruct...

so either
the clutch self destructed - I've not heard one do it
the gearbox self destructed - my money
the driveshaft is in two parts at the other end - this happens, but you'd normally know from the exciting end of ride