I HAVE CUT THIS POST FROM A THREAD IN THE TRIP REPORTS SECTION, AS IT IS PROBABLY MORE USEFUL HERE.
RICHARD
============[
For the Garmin Starburst issue a few pointers:
1. First one is make sure everyone has the same files, I use My Route App for planning as I think it is by far the best tool out there, you can also do comparisons to how Garmin / Tom Tom / OSM will route - although this will still vary on devices, however what is critical is if you have "Here" (Garmin) selected then route planning what you see on the screen will be different to if you change to "Tom Tom"...
.... so you can do a route using here, share it with your biker mates, maybe one then looks at it with the "Tom Tom" routing selected - what he sees and the corresponding track are now different, your third biker mate only has the free version, which use OSM routing - now you all have the "same" route, yet all will have a different experience!
This shows MRA comparing Here (Black) with Tom Tom (Red) and OSM (Blue) towns and areas with many roads are terrible for "starburst" moments, this compare feature is handy when planning as it will show you some places likely to cause grief and you can add waypoints to try and get them all the same.
This is still before people have different settings for fastest Vs shortest, winding routes, hilly routes and various avoidances configured, so 4-5 bikes running different navs, on different firmaware, with different map versions, with different route preferences = your fucked!
2. Second one is to use "Tracks" as these cannot differ (Wait a minute)) - with the Mrs we use a route as we can use the "via" points for places to stop,
things to see etc. but I use the "Show on Map" feature for the track, and have this to make sure we stay on the same path at roundabouts etc. if you get a point where the route and track differ then follow the track (this really helps stopping you getting seprated, particularly in towns), very soon after the device will recalc the route to match.
An example would be a waypoint where M40 meets M25 and next one on M20 toward tunnel, one Nav wants to go clockwise around M25, another Counter-clockwise and third bike wants to go through central london, but the track on all 3 would show what you had on your computer screen, lets say CCW, as soon as others follow track onto CCW carriageway your are good, after a while they will settle down, but for a while may want to divert back into london to "shortcut" - so FOLLOW THE TRACK! (to a dgree this relies on peole paying attention)
To make sure everyone has the same track it is best to download the GPX FIles from your planning tool and email them, although it seems easier to say "get them off MRA" this leavesthe aforementioned risks.
You can also "navigate the track", MRA Navigation and Garmin will both allow you to do this, and as long as you all have the same files you will follow the same route, the downside is it won't show waypoint info like "stop here for coffee" so the lead bike may blow past the coffee / lunch stops you spent many hours researching - although they may anyway if they never pay attention to the voice prompts / look at the text on nav screen.
A "route" also allows you to more easily skip to next point and work around other issues if you get lost or a forced off route, for example if split up you can message everyone and say "restart the route with "coffee stop" as the next destination. I noticed the XT has a "Start from nearest entry point" option, which may be good if you have drifted off piste quite a bit (diversions or something) and want to get back on course.
3. Learn to use your nav (and get bikermates to do so) they are really a tool, not a magical foolproof device, I test mine a bit on local runs, see what happens if you miss a waypoint, how do you select "skip", how does it re-route and how to deal with the dreaded "turn around" shite they pull for no reason at times.
Garmin are terrible for instructions) and telling people how their devices work (I don't think they know, all done by interns and outsourced cheap labour no doubt) anyway, for example of my 345 / Mrs 340 missing a "shape point" forces it to auto-skip to next "Via" point, bypassing any and all other shape points - a problem if you just have start and end point and all other points are "shaping"
Just bought an XT (If Bennets insure you they can be had for £277) and it behaves differently, miss a shape point and it (might) go to the next shape point, this semes to depend and I have not yet fully sussed it out.
4. File types - GPX 1.0 / 1.1 / 1.2 - Whats the difference??? AFAIK the main difference is 1.2 can distinguish between a "shape" point and a "Via" point, with a shape being un-announced / not shown on screen / not seen in the route on the device.
If a device does not support "shape" points (but does accept GPX 1.2) then all points will be "Via" (traditional waypoint) and with GPX 1.1 and earlier every point is always a via point regardless of device.
5. Know your bikermates - a lot (most) people just wanna hit "go" on nav and follow it, over ravinnes / into rivers, whatever it tells them they do it! So I try and make routes as foolproof as possible, I hate loads of waypoints, but they help, using a lot of shapes means my route on the device is not too cluttered and can be edited down, but bear in mind if their device does not support them they may see 50 points to your 20.
Since I discovered the tracks option to display on screen me and Mrs have found life way easier, if you have no planned stops there is an argument for just converting tracks to routes / navigating tracks - but I like the extra info and ability to edit down / restart a route from a set point which is lost with track navigation - YMMV
BTW, Garmin will generally avoid minor roads a lot more than Tom Tom, have a look at this beauty;
Black line is "Here" (Garmin) look at how it does not want to take the road from 6-7 / 7-8, so this route for a Garmin user (might) go from 6 in a big clockwise loop via Kingston Bagpuiz to 7, then tell you to turn around and go back to Frillford and then across and down to Milton.
BTW both my 345 and XT don't follw the alleged Garmin route as after point 4 the go down to Clanfield but then cut back to meet the Tom Tom route before Bampton.
An exported track from Here would look mad, be impossible to follow and figure out (and if navigated would do the crazy double loop)
6-7 is back roads, but all perfectly fine (not single track) and 7-8 is almost dead straight and wide enough for 2 HGV's to pass, the skirt around is both longer and slower - so no routing settings would make sense.
Enjoy getting seperated everyone!
RICHARD
============[
For the Garmin Starburst issue a few pointers:
1. First one is make sure everyone has the same files, I use My Route App for planning as I think it is by far the best tool out there, you can also do comparisons to how Garmin / Tom Tom / OSM will route - although this will still vary on devices, however what is critical is if you have "Here" (Garmin) selected then route planning what you see on the screen will be different to if you change to "Tom Tom"...
.... so you can do a route using here, share it with your biker mates, maybe one then looks at it with the "Tom Tom" routing selected - what he sees and the corresponding track are now different, your third biker mate only has the free version, which use OSM routing - now you all have the "same" route, yet all will have a different experience!
This shows MRA comparing Here (Black) with Tom Tom (Red) and OSM (Blue) towns and areas with many roads are terrible for "starburst" moments, this compare feature is handy when planning as it will show you some places likely to cause grief and you can add waypoints to try and get them all the same.
This is still before people have different settings for fastest Vs shortest, winding routes, hilly routes and various avoidances configured, so 4-5 bikes running different navs, on different firmaware, with different map versions, with different route preferences = your fucked!
2. Second one is to use "Tracks" as these cannot differ (Wait a minute)) - with the Mrs we use a route as we can use the "via" points for places to stop,
things to see etc. but I use the "Show on Map" feature for the track, and have this to make sure we stay on the same path at roundabouts etc. if you get a point where the route and track differ then follow the track (this really helps stopping you getting seprated, particularly in towns), very soon after the device will recalc the route to match.
An example would be a waypoint where M40 meets M25 and next one on M20 toward tunnel, one Nav wants to go clockwise around M25, another Counter-clockwise and third bike wants to go through central london, but the track on all 3 would show what you had on your computer screen, lets say CCW, as soon as others follow track onto CCW carriageway your are good, after a while they will settle down, but for a while may want to divert back into london to "shortcut" - so FOLLOW THE TRACK! (to a dgree this relies on peole paying attention)
To make sure everyone has the same track it is best to download the GPX FIles from your planning tool and email them, although it seems easier to say "get them off MRA" this leavesthe aforementioned risks.
You can also "navigate the track", MRA Navigation and Garmin will both allow you to do this, and as long as you all have the same files you will follow the same route, the downside is it won't show waypoint info like "stop here for coffee" so the lead bike may blow past the coffee / lunch stops you spent many hours researching - although they may anyway if they never pay attention to the voice prompts / look at the text on nav screen.
A "route" also allows you to more easily skip to next point and work around other issues if you get lost or a forced off route, for example if split up you can message everyone and say "restart the route with "coffee stop" as the next destination. I noticed the XT has a "Start from nearest entry point" option, which may be good if you have drifted off piste quite a bit (diversions or something) and want to get back on course.
3. Learn to use your nav (and get bikermates to do so) they are really a tool, not a magical foolproof device, I test mine a bit on local runs, see what happens if you miss a waypoint, how do you select "skip", how does it re-route and how to deal with the dreaded "turn around" shite they pull for no reason at times.
Garmin are terrible for instructions) and telling people how their devices work (I don't think they know, all done by interns and outsourced cheap labour no doubt) anyway, for example of my 345 / Mrs 340 missing a "shape point" forces it to auto-skip to next "Via" point, bypassing any and all other shape points - a problem if you just have start and end point and all other points are "shaping"
Just bought an XT (If Bennets insure you they can be had for £277) and it behaves differently, miss a shape point and it (might) go to the next shape point, this semes to depend and I have not yet fully sussed it out.
4. File types - GPX 1.0 / 1.1 / 1.2 - Whats the difference??? AFAIK the main difference is 1.2 can distinguish between a "shape" point and a "Via" point, with a shape being un-announced / not shown on screen / not seen in the route on the device.
If a device does not support "shape" points (but does accept GPX 1.2) then all points will be "Via" (traditional waypoint) and with GPX 1.1 and earlier every point is always a via point regardless of device.
5. Know your bikermates - a lot (most) people just wanna hit "go" on nav and follow it, over ravinnes / into rivers, whatever it tells them they do it! So I try and make routes as foolproof as possible, I hate loads of waypoints, but they help, using a lot of shapes means my route on the device is not too cluttered and can be edited down, but bear in mind if their device does not support them they may see 50 points to your 20.
Since I discovered the tracks option to display on screen me and Mrs have found life way easier, if you have no planned stops there is an argument for just converting tracks to routes / navigating tracks - but I like the extra info and ability to edit down / restart a route from a set point which is lost with track navigation - YMMV
BTW, Garmin will generally avoid minor roads a lot more than Tom Tom, have a look at this beauty;
Black line is "Here" (Garmin) look at how it does not want to take the road from 6-7 / 7-8, so this route for a Garmin user (might) go from 6 in a big clockwise loop via Kingston Bagpuiz to 7, then tell you to turn around and go back to Frillford and then across and down to Milton.
BTW both my 345 and XT don't follw the alleged Garmin route as after point 4 the go down to Clanfield but then cut back to meet the Tom Tom route before Bampton.
An exported track from Here would look mad, be impossible to follow and figure out (and if navigated would do the crazy double loop)
6-7 is back roads, but all perfectly fine (not single track) and 7-8 is almost dead straight and wide enough for 2 HGV's to pass, the skirt around is both longer and slower - so no routing settings would make sense.
Enjoy getting seperated everyone!
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