AF-XIED for a standard bike?

MattW

MattW

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I'll be keeping my GSA TC for the foreseeable future - I love it and there's nothing that is tempting me into changing it.

So with this said, I'm thinking about treating it to something to improve its fuelling and improve the oft talked about flatspot. I also have vague concerns when I'm thrashing down autobahns etc that it's probably running lean and challenging its exhaust valves. It's my only bike so gets used for everything from solo thrashing to fully loaded two up touring. It's completely standard apart from a bit of bolt on stainless tat - standard exhaust, flappy valve etc. It's got about 12k miles on it (the original owner put 2k on it in 2 years), I have it dealer serviced and I pay for the extended warranty with European breakdown cover (yes, I'm all sorts of fool but there you go...)

I don't want to go the hilltop route but I like the sound of the AF-XIED units (believe me, I've read everything I can on here about both options including "Engineer's" ramblings).

A couple of questions for those who know about this stuff...

Would there be any point in AF-XIED units on a bog standard bike?

I guess AF-XIED units are obvious when installed and aren't compatible with dealer servicing and extended warranties? (I like the warranty for peace of mind in case something like the FD or ESA units crack themselves, especially if I'm abroad).

Can anyone tell me the current cost of a pair of the units?

Many thanks
 
Watching with interest, tell you what, you buy them and lend them to me every time you send the bike for a service, win-win!

Unfortunately prices will have risen for sterling buyers as ex rate will have gone well against us.
Still cheapest to get a mate go buy in the states and post over as second hand/used.
 
Google finds the price - top of the list. http://sales.nightrider.com/

The final drive will need new internal bearings at about 50K miles. The wheel bearing may go at about the same time but simply changing that (as the BMW warranty will do) is false economy. Talk to @Mikeyboy or Steptoe for the details on that issue.

A Hilltop remap is to all intents invisible and gives an excuse for a long ride. If you plan to keep the bike the Hilltop may be the better option.

The AF-XIED is the easiest way to deal with the bike's weak running and flat spots. The AF's can be sold when you change bikes but if that's in 5 years time they may well be out of date. Your choice.

Correcting the air fuel ratios actually gives the engine an easier life. Removing the module at every service will muddle the ECU learned/adapted trim settings. If you are really worried about the warranty ask your BMW dealer.
 
you are about 100 miles away from geoff at hilltop,ride it down drop it off go and have a bag of chips down the road ,come back pay your money ,ride home job done,and a canny day out to :thumb
 
Mine's a standard TC, including flappy valve, and I've been running the AF XiED units for the last year and 20k miles with absolutely no issues.
They make it the bike that I had been expecting to buy after test riding one when the TC came out. Not saying they were mapped of course...
Your servicing dealer won't really care and it's not going to cause a breakdown.
Worst case scenario, remove the cover under the head, unplug the units and reconnect the original. That's it back to standard.
If the sensors aren't plugged in at all, the bike will still run.
Remap or AF XiED's?
That's your choice. The only person who has had both on the forum reckons the AF XiED's have the edge.
Speaking as someone who actually has them, I think they're excellent.
I had thought of an LC but don't see the point anymore. Happy with what I have.
 
Matt, having used an AF-XIED for a few years now on two bikes and probably covered around 20,000 miles I'd say I have had a good opportunity to weigh them up.

Its currently fitted to my 1150GSA with y piece, remus and K&N, I was averaging about 250 miles out of the 31 litre tank before I fitted the XIED, that jumped to about 270-280 depending on how I'd ridden and traffic and its stayed about that for nearly 12 months now.

The engine ran much smoother and had more torque lower down and the top end is much better...if I was to take it on the Autobahn I reckon it would exceed a clocked 120.

So putting aside the mods, the 1150 has adaptive fuelling as you probably know, so the ECU will have corrected the AFR to suit the exhaust and filter. So my modifed bike should in theory run at the same ratio as a standard bike.

As a general rule, manufacturers will add more free air during combustion to dilute emissions, note that combustion temperature is a parabola against AFR. There is a point where if you continue adding free air the combustion temperature will peak then start to fall off again as you continue on the lean side of the spectrum. Which is good for emissions crap for performance.

So even on a standard bike, the XIED will allow you to richen your mixture and you can choose by how much weighing up performance vs fuel economy. I run on setting 6.
This can abate pinging and the risks you elude to at higher throttle opening under heavier engine loadings.

They are easy to spot if you had the tank off, they are also easy to remove before a service as they just click in via the OEM connectors.

With the £ vs $ I reckon you be over £500 for two. I think mine was about £220 at the time and it got through customs without charge.

The only thing to weigh up Matt is that the Hilltop may or may not also adjust ignition timing as well as fuelling in a specific way and can smooth out the AFR, the XIED will only adjust fuelling as a broad brush it wont smoothen out the fuel map, so if you have a crap fuel map, you'll still have one but it will all just be a bit richer.

Hope that helps.
 
Great - thanks for the replies everyone - very helpful.

I like the idea of the AF-XIED units as the modification is fully reversible (should you ever want to) and will adapt to any changes I make to the bike (eg, if I choose to decat or fit a can, they'll adapt to suit). I assume if you have a 'Hilltop' and then make changes to the bike, you're back to Geoff. I also have a nagging doubt about whether the bike will 'adapt out' Geoffs remap but I'm not going to reopen that bucket of worms. Geoff's secrecy with a dose of bullshit also irritates me but that's just me - I know plenty of people want to have his babies.

Looking at the Nightrider website prices the BMW R1200 unit at $379 (which if I'm reading it right includes the two units required) - so just over £300 + postage (can't get the website to calculate postage on my iPad) + duty and handling (knowing my luck I'd probably get charged). So I guess around £400+. Broadly similar to the cost of a Hilltop by the time I'd ridden to and from.

Will have to have a think - I really fancy getting something done in time for my two up June trip to the Picos and Portugal...

Thanks again for the advice and 'real world' feedback :thumb2
 
I'd recommend them 100%. I put them on my old bog standard 2011 TC and they made a world of difference, smoother, more grunt low down, no flat spots, clutchless upchanges became a breeze, and they also completely cured the very annoying stalling when changing down to 2nd gear whilst slowing down for traffic lights. It used to happen at least once a week on my commute into London and never happened again after fitting the AF-XIED.

I have now moved them over to my new EU4 LC adventure and it too is running sweet with no top gear flatspot at around 4500rpm when you open the throttle which I had noticed on the EU4 demo bike I test rode. They were even easier to fit on the LC that they were on the TC.
 
I can also fully recommend the AF-XIED units . I have them fitted to my R1200S and my R1200GSA TC and they make a huge difference . I have now also fitted a unit to my G650 XChallenge and again it has improved the bike vastly . I bought my R1200 units direct whilst I was on holiday in Florida and popped over to see Steve at Nightrider and paid cash for them . i bought the G650X unit via email and it was delivered and passed through Customs without any additional charges ;-)
 
MattW said:
and will adapt to any changes I make to the bike
Click to expand...

No Matt "it won't adapt" as its a dumb device it just simply takes the signal from the sensor, shifts that sensor value by a fixed amount you set and then transmits that adjsuted value back to the ECU , but you can adjust it via the dial. Being pedantic I know.

If you set it to say setting 6....this may correspond to an actual AFR of say 13.8, if you add a zorst etc the AFR may increase to 14.5, Whether the hex head has adaptive fuelling is another debate as you say but is pertinent as if it does the ECU will adapt to the new mods by increasing the injector pulse width to inject more fuel to compensate for the increase in air through put to restore the AFR to what it thinks is the stock setting from being too lean. If it doesnt then you will need to take the XIED a notch or two richer to compensate.
Either way it's either a do nothing or a tweek with a screw driver on the dials.

IMHO, I really can't see the point of having an OEM ecu with two Lambda's sensors and not having adaptive fuelling, unless the AFR is logged and is either reviewed by the service technicans for adjustment or is fed back to the factory for them to release updated maps.

They did it on the 1150 so I really can't see them dropping that feature with emission regs tightening...but thats just my opinion.
 
blueranger said:
No Matt "it won't adapt" as its a dumb device it just simply takes the signal from the sensor, shifts that sensor value by a fixed amount you set and then transmits that adjsuted value back to the ECU , but you can adjust it via the dial. Being pedantic I know.

If you set it to say setting 6....this may correspond to an actual AFR of say 13.8, if you add a zorst etc the AFR may increase to 14.5, Whether the hex head has adaptive fuelling is another debate as you say but is pertinent as if it does the ECU will adapt to the new mods by increasing the injector pulse width to inject more fuel to compensate for the increase in air through put to restore the AFR to what it thinks is the stock setting from being too lean. If it doesnt then you will need to take the XIED a notch or two richer to compensate.
Either way it's either a do nothing or a tweek with a screw driver on the dials.

IMHO, I really can't see the point of having an OEM ecu with two Lambda's sensors and not having adaptive fuelling, unless the AFR is logged and is either reviewed by the service technicans for adjustment or is fed back to the factory for them to release updated maps.

They did it on the 1150 so I really can't see them dropping that feature with emission regs tightening...but thats just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Thanks :thumb
 
The set sold for the BMW has for two controllers. One controller is half the price (funnily enough) ;)
 
The hilltop retune, will take into account any future mods, decat or end can for example.

Why not have a chat with geoff, I found him friendly and helpful.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk
 
I also visited Nightrider in Florida last October. The rate was rubbish and with some military discount I paid £240. Straight through customs they are very small. Only had mine fitted for 200 miles. Not good since October I know but now the weather is changing will be able to evaluate them fully. I'm on setting 7. What I instantly noticed was the bike was much easier to ride in traffic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You can also order the AF-XEID`s from Beemer Boneyard, http://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafxied1200.html
Purchased mine 3 years ago 35k miles. they are on my second bike and cant fault them.
As for "debate" about the adaptive ability of the ecu, Just plug your GS911 in and study the short and long term fuel trims.
If you set the AF-XEID`s to say setting 7 ( I record this at 13.8 to 1 ) The afr will stay at 13.8 to 1 if you change the complete exhaust system as long as the lambda sensors are connected.
 
Use Xieds on my standard single cam. Like someone else said they made it the bike it should've been. Easy to fit/remove. Got mine from beemer boneyard, very helpful people who answer e mails very quickly. Had them posted but luckily they weren't stopped at customs and ended up in my letterbox.

Not noticed more outright power, just a noticeable amount of low down grunt. Immediate pick up from low revs and just generally a lot smoother.

I got mine to improve the pick up and like yourself I was concerned about the exhaust valves, mainly for future mods I intend to carry out.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the replies - great to hear feedback from people who've got them :thumb2
 
Nippy Normans supply Touratech, Wunderlich, Desert Fox and many other makes of accessories.
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