the background:
4 years on an 1150GS, 4 years on a 1200GSA followed by another 3 years on a twin cam GSA. for many of those years i also ran a R100GSPD alongside, then a R80G/S which i still have.
understandably i think. i felt i need a change.
had to be not a GS and not even a BMW, so i bought a KTM1190. for the purposes of this comparison, we’ll call it an S model.
TBH i wasn’t totally bowled over on the 2 road tests i took the demo bike on. i liked it a lot, but it wasn’t the fabulous allrounder the TC was.
the TC had custom Wilbers non ESA suspension that was perfect for loaded two up hooning, but it could be a bit crashy one up. i felt i could maybe have gone down from 180Nm spring on the back and still cope 2 up but i never bothered. it was still very good solo.
the S was softer (160Nm spring + lighter bike) and despite my deep rooted suspicion of stock suspension units, i couldn’t really fault it. quick spin with mrs cookie on the back and it seemed ok. she even said how comfy it was.
i wanted a road bike. i wasn’t interested in the R, and they didn’t have a demo so i never gave it much consideration.
a couple of weeks later, i traded the TC in for an 1190S. a bit of a whim really, but it was a change, it wasn’t a GS, wasn’t a BMW, and it wasn’t sensible but it was metallic orange and did go like fuck!
i never really wanted the EDS suspension model, but the manual is a special order from KTM + i thought it would resell better, so i got the electronic model. not such a wise move as it turned out.
i came to like it a lot. the more i rode it the more i liked it. i pretty much always left it in 1 rider Load position and Comfort damping. when the pace upped a bit i would sometimes up the damping to Street which was nearly always bang on. i do remember a couple of occasions where i wanted more and tried Sport. both times it was too much and i went straight back to Street. might have been nice to have some more granular adjustment. not really a big issue for me though.
the steering was the hardest thing to get used to. very different to the GS. much quicker and less predictable for me. at times when counter steering it into a bend, quite different changing pressure on the bars was needed to keep it on a constant radius, a bit like the tyre was a bit down on pressure. after a while i never noticed it anymore, but the bike was a little tricky to place *just so*, and my riding changed to be very much more “point and squirt” through corners. several people i ride with commented on this and they did not seem like terribly positive comments
fast forward to October this year and mrs cookie and myself are going to the south of spain on our first trip together on the bike. a quick blast with her and simulated luggage load went better than i expected, i was hopeful.
in practice it was fecking awful. the ride height at the back was miles too low. it didn’t affect the steering as much as i thought, but it would regularly bottom out even on motorways sometimes. on the lovely spanish back roads it was hopeless. max preload and max damping and it would bottom frequently and wallow badly. as the suspension heated up, it got worse. it even fooled me into thinking it wasn’t that bad a couple of times when first starting off in the morning, but it wouldn’t last more than a couple of miles. i decided i’d never buy another bike with proprietary electronic suspension units that couldn’t be upgraded.
….so when i got back home i went back to the dealer and chopped it in for an R
this what i think of the 2 versions….
1190 ADV S
looks great. always preferred the cohesive styling to the R’s 90s shell suit colour scheme. yes, it does look like a Varedero, but i can’t say the comparison has ever bothered me.
i found myself with a strange desire to keep the bike spotless. i’ve never had that before, but it did look much better when shiny.
suspension is perfectly good as long as you don’t stray outside it’s working parameters.
unfortunately working effectively two-up is outside those parameters for me.
one-up, the spring rate was bang on and gave a firm yet fairly supple ride. never came close to bottomming it, and i think i gave it a few opportunities
the electronic suspension is occasionally handy and very easy to adjust. sadly it is what it is. no one makes a replacement if you find it wanting (i did). i guess it’s possible to find someone to re spring it, but it would definitely need re valving as the damping is lacking at higher preloads already. bottom line is, it’s a basic emulsion shock and i wanted better.
handling is good, if a little weird to me. see remarks above.
fabulous engine and gearbox. on a different plane entirely to any BMW boxer.
seat on high position gave me great legroom and the “on the bike” riding position i prefer. narrow bars help position the rider towards the front of the bike. again, given a choice i’d rather be more over the front wheel rather than back. quite reasonable stretch to the ground for my little legs. i’m 5’10” but 31” inside leg.
problems: none
1190 ADV R
i’ve not had it long and not quite done 500 miles on it, but i’m coming to rather like the, er, challenging colour scheme. most people i speak to seem to prefer it, so it’s probably just me. the longer suspension units certainly give the bike a better stance visually.
the suspension is rock hard and ricochets off rippled tarmac. the 14> R is fitted with a 180Nm rear spring and it’s very apparent. adjustment has not helped much. in fairness, it’s brand new and i would expect it to settle down and become more compliant after 1K/2K miles.
whatever. being conventional, it is adjustable for all the usual parameters by the owner and more still by a specialist. i can even lob it and fit an Ohlins unit.
however, i’m pretty i’m confident it will handle two-up hooning with aplomb without going to those lengths
the steering is more natural. it seems to suit my riding better than the S. corners flow more. with no more point and squirt. i got on it, rode it, it felt natural straight away.
the gyro effect of the 21” front wheel is very apparent after the S, but it’s still easy to turn in, but has an old skool stability the S lacks. a bit more relaxed than the S, i think.
i’m a little concerned about the narrow tyres. i’m sure they’ll be ok, but there is very little choice for road tyres. one really - Conti TA 2s.
did 150 gentle running in miles and the chicken strips are all but gone. i have read reports on ADV Rider from two riders who reckon they rode right off the edge.
the wider bars and deeper seat cut out make the position more “in” than “on”. not so much over the front either. maybe not a bad thing with that skinny tyre. mirrors marginally better placed though.
same fabulous engine and gearbox. still on a different plane entirely to any BMW boxer.
this 2015 bike may even be smoother than the old one.
the 18” rear tyre might make the R slightly higher geared? it’s not obvious anyway.
the OEM R seat is harder, yet more comfy than S OEM as it’s a better shape,. KTM have obviously removed foam to get the seat height down to an acceptable distance. there is only one position which is low. as a result, there is less legroom and the seat does not mate up with the tank cut outs nicely.
the R seat being thinner is definitely hotter.
i fitted the two piece Ergo seat from the S the other day and it has transformed comfort on the R. generally more comfortable, cooler and the shocks from the firm suspension are much less noticeable.
downsides: it’s a little bit higher than the OEM R seat when the Low position and looks crap in comparison. it has a bit of that that broken back look that the 1150 GS suffers from.
if i could ride it in the high position, it would fit the tank better.
there is less wiring obscuring the ignition as there is no EDS on the fork tops. this makes the awkwardly deep place switch probably 50% easier to use.
not having the EDS CPU means there is more storage in the tail too.
being a 2015 bike, it benefits from the better starter motor and also the slightly better air box. the headlight shell is different too, and extends further back over the frame. you can no longer adjust the headlight angle without removing a bit of fairing. doing so on the S was fecking awkward, so not a big loss.
i’m happy to say the cleaning OCD is subsiding. the R is happier being a dirty girl than the S.
problems: TPS unit in rear tyre has slight leak from new. needs a new unit and i’m still waiting for that.
i can’t explain it, but the R has more “soul” somehow. it’s like it’s the hard core dual purpose bike KTM always wanted to make and then they tweaked it with the S after to scoop up some of the GS soft boys market
having said that, the S is probably the better bike for most people, especially if they are much under 6 foot. if the suspension had been better, or i could have put an Ohlins on it easier, i’d still have it.
that would have been a shame though, as i definitely prefer the R
no such thing as a keeper, or is there?
4 years on an 1150GS, 4 years on a 1200GSA followed by another 3 years on a twin cam GSA. for many of those years i also ran a R100GSPD alongside, then a R80G/S which i still have.
understandably i think. i felt i need a change.
had to be not a GS and not even a BMW, so i bought a KTM1190. for the purposes of this comparison, we’ll call it an S model.
TBH i wasn’t totally bowled over on the 2 road tests i took the demo bike on. i liked it a lot, but it wasn’t the fabulous allrounder the TC was.
the TC had custom Wilbers non ESA suspension that was perfect for loaded two up hooning, but it could be a bit crashy one up. i felt i could maybe have gone down from 180Nm spring on the back and still cope 2 up but i never bothered. it was still very good solo.
the S was softer (160Nm spring + lighter bike) and despite my deep rooted suspicion of stock suspension units, i couldn’t really fault it. quick spin with mrs cookie on the back and it seemed ok. she even said how comfy it was.
i wanted a road bike. i wasn’t interested in the R, and they didn’t have a demo so i never gave it much consideration.
a couple of weeks later, i traded the TC in for an 1190S. a bit of a whim really, but it was a change, it wasn’t a GS, wasn’t a BMW, and it wasn’t sensible but it was metallic orange and did go like fuck!
i never really wanted the EDS suspension model, but the manual is a special order from KTM + i thought it would resell better, so i got the electronic model. not such a wise move as it turned out.
i came to like it a lot. the more i rode it the more i liked it. i pretty much always left it in 1 rider Load position and Comfort damping. when the pace upped a bit i would sometimes up the damping to Street which was nearly always bang on. i do remember a couple of occasions where i wanted more and tried Sport. both times it was too much and i went straight back to Street. might have been nice to have some more granular adjustment. not really a big issue for me though.
the steering was the hardest thing to get used to. very different to the GS. much quicker and less predictable for me. at times when counter steering it into a bend, quite different changing pressure on the bars was needed to keep it on a constant radius, a bit like the tyre was a bit down on pressure. after a while i never noticed it anymore, but the bike was a little tricky to place *just so*, and my riding changed to be very much more “point and squirt” through corners. several people i ride with commented on this and they did not seem like terribly positive comments
fast forward to October this year and mrs cookie and myself are going to the south of spain on our first trip together on the bike. a quick blast with her and simulated luggage load went better than i expected, i was hopeful.
in practice it was fecking awful. the ride height at the back was miles too low. it didn’t affect the steering as much as i thought, but it would regularly bottom out even on motorways sometimes. on the lovely spanish back roads it was hopeless. max preload and max damping and it would bottom frequently and wallow badly. as the suspension heated up, it got worse. it even fooled me into thinking it wasn’t that bad a couple of times when first starting off in the morning, but it wouldn’t last more than a couple of miles. i decided i’d never buy another bike with proprietary electronic suspension units that couldn’t be upgraded.
….so when i got back home i went back to the dealer and chopped it in for an R
this what i think of the 2 versions….
1190 ADV S
looks great. always preferred the cohesive styling to the R’s 90s shell suit colour scheme. yes, it does look like a Varedero, but i can’t say the comparison has ever bothered me.
i found myself with a strange desire to keep the bike spotless. i’ve never had that before, but it did look much better when shiny.
suspension is perfectly good as long as you don’t stray outside it’s working parameters.
unfortunately working effectively two-up is outside those parameters for me.
one-up, the spring rate was bang on and gave a firm yet fairly supple ride. never came close to bottomming it, and i think i gave it a few opportunities
the electronic suspension is occasionally handy and very easy to adjust. sadly it is what it is. no one makes a replacement if you find it wanting (i did). i guess it’s possible to find someone to re spring it, but it would definitely need re valving as the damping is lacking at higher preloads already. bottom line is, it’s a basic emulsion shock and i wanted better.
handling is good, if a little weird to me. see remarks above.
fabulous engine and gearbox. on a different plane entirely to any BMW boxer.
seat on high position gave me great legroom and the “on the bike” riding position i prefer. narrow bars help position the rider towards the front of the bike. again, given a choice i’d rather be more over the front wheel rather than back. quite reasonable stretch to the ground for my little legs. i’m 5’10” but 31” inside leg.
problems: none
1190 ADV R
i’ve not had it long and not quite done 500 miles on it, but i’m coming to rather like the, er, challenging colour scheme. most people i speak to seem to prefer it, so it’s probably just me. the longer suspension units certainly give the bike a better stance visually.
the suspension is rock hard and ricochets off rippled tarmac. the 14> R is fitted with a 180Nm rear spring and it’s very apparent. adjustment has not helped much. in fairness, it’s brand new and i would expect it to settle down and become more compliant after 1K/2K miles.
whatever. being conventional, it is adjustable for all the usual parameters by the owner and more still by a specialist. i can even lob it and fit an Ohlins unit.
however, i’m pretty i’m confident it will handle two-up hooning with aplomb without going to those lengths
the steering is more natural. it seems to suit my riding better than the S. corners flow more. with no more point and squirt. i got on it, rode it, it felt natural straight away.
the gyro effect of the 21” front wheel is very apparent after the S, but it’s still easy to turn in, but has an old skool stability the S lacks. a bit more relaxed than the S, i think.
i’m a little concerned about the narrow tyres. i’m sure they’ll be ok, but there is very little choice for road tyres. one really - Conti TA 2s.
did 150 gentle running in miles and the chicken strips are all but gone. i have read reports on ADV Rider from two riders who reckon they rode right off the edge.
the wider bars and deeper seat cut out make the position more “in” than “on”. not so much over the front either. maybe not a bad thing with that skinny tyre. mirrors marginally better placed though.
same fabulous engine and gearbox. still on a different plane entirely to any BMW boxer.
this 2015 bike may even be smoother than the old one.
the 18” rear tyre might make the R slightly higher geared? it’s not obvious anyway.
the OEM R seat is harder, yet more comfy than S OEM as it’s a better shape,. KTM have obviously removed foam to get the seat height down to an acceptable distance. there is only one position which is low. as a result, there is less legroom and the seat does not mate up with the tank cut outs nicely.
the R seat being thinner is definitely hotter.
i fitted the two piece Ergo seat from the S the other day and it has transformed comfort on the R. generally more comfortable, cooler and the shocks from the firm suspension are much less noticeable.
downsides: it’s a little bit higher than the OEM R seat when the Low position and looks crap in comparison. it has a bit of that that broken back look that the 1150 GS suffers from.
if i could ride it in the high position, it would fit the tank better.
there is less wiring obscuring the ignition as there is no EDS on the fork tops. this makes the awkwardly deep place switch probably 50% easier to use.
not having the EDS CPU means there is more storage in the tail too.
being a 2015 bike, it benefits from the better starter motor and also the slightly better air box. the headlight shell is different too, and extends further back over the frame. you can no longer adjust the headlight angle without removing a bit of fairing. doing so on the S was fecking awkward, so not a big loss.
i’m happy to say the cleaning OCD is subsiding. the R is happier being a dirty girl than the S.
problems: TPS unit in rear tyre has slight leak from new. needs a new unit and i’m still waiting for that.
i can’t explain it, but the R has more “soul” somehow. it’s like it’s the hard core dual purpose bike KTM always wanted to make and then they tweaked it with the S after to scoop up some of the GS soft boys market
having said that, the S is probably the better bike for most people, especially if they are much under 6 foot. if the suspension had been better, or i could have put an Ohlins on it easier, i’d still have it.
that would have been a shame though, as i definitely prefer the R
no such thing as a keeper, or is there?
