Insurance woes

[TechnoGSA]

I'm having a right nightmare at present, trying to ensure a new 1250 GSA TE. I've been riding constantly for 45 yrs, max no claims 9+, no convictions, no med issues, garaged, etc. Got 2 other bikes XJR and a maxi scoot, Datatool'd etc just renewed them with Bennetts and moved to a village south of Chesterfield, from the West Country. Was with CN and they wanted £290 up from £243 increase probably due to the move and all polices appear to be increasing, like everything else! Went with Bennetts (Highway) for £261 in the end.

Ok now the GSA, so this is a new bike, thought I'd treat myself after retiring and getting my pay out etc. I duly order one back in Apr after doing my due diligence with the insurance back in Apr. Tues I get a call the bike is clearing customs and will be ready for collection in a week, excellent. I contact Bennetts and attempt to add the GSA, no problem, give them all the info, bike value, 22k, now the security, now the trouble starts. Data Tag BMW alarm/immobiliser, which I believe are in fact Datatool. PJB 19mm chain and ground anchor all Sold secure Gold, Litelok X 1 is Dimond and garaged.

The BMW alarm, chain/anchor, isn't on their list. The 16mm version is, I don't have a 16mm mine is 19mm, neither is the Litelok X1. They will accept a Oxford XL chain, even though it's a lesser bit of kit. His quote £574 for the 3 bikes.

The chap presses the button and................... No. After a conversation with his supervisor, not enough security and they want a tracker.

Ok which one? Datatool Adventure Trakker, ok, I search the Datatool website, it no longer exists, the current model is the Stealth S5, £359 plus the annual subs, I'd paid BMW £250 for their alarm so asked them to fit a Stealth no problem just an extra £100 odd, wait for it.............. it's not on their list it can't be added. Now Bennetts have their Bike Social thing, they've tested and rated the X 1, The PJB and the X 1 but they aren't on their/Higways list of approved security so can't be added WTF!

Bennetts have now contacted Highway to see of they'll accept the 19mm, X 1 and the Stealth, what on earth is going on?

I've never had any issues like this before in 45 years. Has anyone else had it must have a tracker fitted and the issues of, Sold secure/Thatcham approved kit not being on an insurance company's list?

 

[fizzer]

i think it has been said before,but insurance companys get a bit jumpy if the bike is worth over 20 grand.

 

[TechnoGSA]

i think it has been said before,but insurance companys get a bit jumpy if the bike is worth over 20 grand.

I get the hike eg from £261 too £574 and even the tracker, but kit that's been approved and tested by Bennetts can't be added to their insurance system as it's not on their list!

 

[Wapping]

You possibly have three separate problems.

1. You are talking to a chimp in a call centre. The chimps will very often only respond to the items that appear on their list. For a simple example, if it says security chain X mm, made by company ABC and yours is Y mm, made by company XYZ then it’ll be “Computer says no”. It has to be this way in order to cater for the vast bulk of customers that do fit into the tidy little boxes, who can be dealt with in seconds and sold a policy, probably priced at an annual premium of less than a pound a day.

What Bennetts put on their tried and tested bikermate reviews web page and what then appears on chimp’s quote computer screen, are in no way linked. A broker advertises track days as potential prizes in customer competitions….. track days are specifically excluded in the policies they sell to their customers. Go figure, as they say.

2. Many insurers now balk at bikes valued at north of £20,000. Why? You only need to look at this forum to see reports of expensive bikes being targeted by thieves. The twenty thousand threshold has been around for a while. It got so bad in London, that BMW Park Lane were asking potential new customers to check and then guarantee that insurance would not be a problem, before they would take new orders on expensive bikes. The value problem is then potentially exacerbated, when many policies indemnify the policy holder on a ‘new for old’ basis in year one of ownership.

3. You are maybe running into the ‘accumulation risk’ problem. You now have three bikes in your garage, whose values in case of say theft, accumulate (add) together. That though is maybe less of an issue than items 1 and 2.

 

[TechnoGSA]

You possibly have three separate problems.

1. You are talking to a chimp in a call centre. The chimps will very often only respond to the items that appear on their list. For a simple example, if it says security chain X mm, made by company ABC and yours is Y mm, made by company XYZ then it’ll be “Computer says no”. It has to be this way in order to cater for the vast bulk of customers that do fit into the tidy little boxes, who can be dealt with in seconds and sold a policy, probably priced at an annual premium of less than a pound a day.

2. Many insurers now balk at bikes valued at north of £20,000. Why? You only need to look at this forum to see reports of expensive bikes being targeted by thieves. The twenty thousand threshold has been around for a while. It got so bad that BMW Park Lane were asking potential new customers to check and then guarantee that insurance would not be a problem, before they would take new orders on expensive bikes.

3. You are maybe running into the ‘accumulation risk’ problem. You now have three bikes in your garage, whose values in case of say theft, accumulate (add) together. That though is maybe less of an issue than items 1 and 2.

Yes all valid points. But why allow you/me to go on their site and input all the info including the value and get a quote? If the 20k is their limit they should just state it and refuse at the point on the online quote and/or state you need a tracker at the outset and why isn't approved kit that's been tested by themselves not able to be added. With their data base so far out of date?

Yes likely a pleb be he was speaking to a supervisor, are all of them plebs too?

I'm almost at a point of cancelling the bike now, it will cost me my deposit, no doubt but the whole treat thing is being utterly spoiled now. If what you say about BMW Park Lane it correct, BMW have an issue long term with their bikes betting evermore expensive. As potential buyers like myself lets say mature, wrong side of 50 and upwards, who I would argue from a the bulk of their clientele are just going to walk away from buying new.

 

[Wapping]

The problem of high value bikes is not unique to BMW but is maybe over amplified as their sales figures on ‘expensive’ models are higher than their rivals’. More ‘expensive’ BMW bikes on the road, the theft risk (maybe) increases. If you (as a thief) were stealing bikes to break up and sell the parts, would you target bikes - and their parts - that are in demand or bikes that are less popular? I know which ones I’d go for. Thieves are not stupid, though their targets sometimes are.

As to the design of Bennetts’ quote website? That is another matter entirely. That being said, it is probably designed around the likely pool of potential customers who DO fit into the very large pot of owners whose bikes are valued at under £20,000. Take it up with Bennetts, would be my simple suggestion.

 

[wessie]

I was in a similar position a while ago. I ended up with 2 policies, insuring the new expensive bike separately.

My suggestion is to bin Bennetts as they are useless since being taken over.

Take out a new policy with no NCB on the two older bikes.

Take your new bike and put it on a separate policy with the full NCB.

You might want to speak to a proper broker like Bikesure (Adrian Flux), Lancaster or Bemoto who might be willing to work a bit harder for their commission.

 

[TechnoGSA]

Take it up with BennettÂ’s, would be my simple suggestion.

I have, I've emailed the chap who does all the testing here:

Litelok

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUwjh8J4uec&t=97s

Datatool S5 and Biketrak both not on their approved list!

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/security/trackers/best-motorcycle-tracker

19mm chain you've got to scroll down but its there, as is their 22mm and the super anti pinch pin which I also have none are on their approved list!
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesoci...ks/how-to-choose-the-best-motorcycle-security

 

[TechnoGSA]

I was in a similar position a while ago. I ended up with 2 policies, insuring the new expensive bike separately.

My suggestion is to bin Bennetts as they are useless since being taken over.

Take out a new policy with no NCB on the two older bikes.

Take your new bike and put it on a separate policy with the full NCB.

You might want to speak to a proper broker like Bikesure (Adrian Flux), Lancaster or Bemoto who might be willing to work a bit harder for their commission.

Thanks I was thinking along these lines ref NCB, my issue is I've just taken out a new policy for the old 2 bike starting on the 15 May all I wanted to do is add the new BMW. I'll look into the costs of the NCB on the older bikes and the NCB on the new. What a rip off insurance has become!

 

[wessie]

Thanks I was thinking along these lines ref NCB, my issue is I've just taken out a new policy for the old 2 bike starting on the 15 May all I wanted to do is add the new BMW. I'll look into the costs of the NCB on the older bikes and the NCB on the new. What a rip off insurance has become!

as the policy has not started yet, you should be able to cancel the Bennett's pile of crap without any penalty

 

[TechnoGSA]

as the policy has not started yet, you should be able to cancel the Bennett's pile of crap without any penalty

Yes I hope so.

 

[Wapping]

I have, I've emailed the chap who does all the testing here:

Litelok

http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUwjh8J4uec&t=97s

Datatool S5 and Biketrak both not on their approved list!

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/security/trackers/best-motorcycle-tracker

19mm chain you've got to scroll down but its there, as is their 22mm and the super anti pinch pin which I also have none are on their approved list!
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesoci...ks/how-to-choose-the-best-motorcycle-security

To quote old JB, that is shocking, quite shocking.

Heaven forbid that the dude (to use the popular parlance) ever reviews a product on Bennetts’ approved list and says it is garbage, his appended video film showing scrotes just how easy to attack….. and how to do it.

 

[TechnoGSA]

To quote old JB, that is shocking, quite shocking.

Heaven forbid that the dude (to use the popular parlance) ever reviews a product on Bennetts’ approved list and says it is garbage, his appended video film showing scrotes just how easy to attack….. and how to do it.

Ture. That said I think they test the stuff before it becomes available, like at present you can't buy a Litelok X 3 until June.

All security should be taken with the view if someone really wants it nothing is going to stop them. As we all know one large van 2 - 4 as you say scrotes, a non secured to something bike and it's lifted and gone in under 20sec. Luckily most scrotes, don't want to work too hard and risk getting caught, when they can look elsewhere for a bike/car that's not secured.

Most pro bike theft is targeted i.e. bike of value parked in the same place everyday, on a drive etc, they case it and then return. The drive thing out of sight out of mind is the order of the day and just make it difficult/time consuming and noisy to get at the bike. Parked in the same place everyday, I'd seriously question anyone who parks a bike of real value in the same place everyday say a station carpark etc. Get a bike of lesser value to do the daily commute and lock it to others using the loop system, we should all know how that works.

I'm all for security, but insurance company's need to ensure it can apply real discounts to policies, because from what I'm being told it doesn't!

 

[Wapping]

…. insurance company's need to ensure it can apply real discounts to policies, because from what I'm being told it doesn't!

How much of a discount on an annual premium of say £400 for a £22,000 bike do you think is justifiable? How much when the premium falls to say, £200 when the bike is two years old and worth (if you are lucky) £15,000?

…..I'd seriously question anyone who parks a bike of real value in the same place everyday….

Then I’d suggest you not stroll into the City of London or many of London’s streets, as you’d be apoplectic with rage, in just a few streets.

 

[TechnoGSA]

How much of a discount on an annual premium of say £400 for a £22,000 bike do you think is justifiable? How much when the premium falls to say, £200 when the bike is two years old and worth (if you are lucky) £15,000?

I'd load it the other way, if you fit nothing your premium goes up, if you fit something/s from an approved list is stays at £400.

Then I’d suggest you not stroll into the City of London or many of London’s streets, as you’d be apoplectic with rage, in just a few streets.

Yes mate I come from Town and yes I've seen all the very high value bikes parked unsecured. That's the issue they're not being loaded premium wise for not using anything. That's the whole issue for me, owner spends £500 + on security, parked next to the same bike with none, chances are they both paying the same for insurance! Based on readily available data any lock fitted will make your bike 3x less likely to be pinched, fit a quality heavy duty chain/lock/alarm 10 x less likely. Those that fit nothing are driving up all the premiums, so load them accordingly.

My guess is the insurance companies are happy with the current situation as they can just keep increasing our premiums. Which is likely to net them more year on year profit.

 

[Wapping]

The fault with your theory of punishing bods who do not use security (or rewarding those that do) is that it does not work. That being said, it does (in a sense at least) get applied sometimes, when an insurer says, “No tracker, no insurance”. *

Bods will simply lie when making their proposal to the insurer. We see examples of that on these pages. They will tell the insurer it has XYZ, when either they don’t have it or they won’t use it each and every time but they’ll still get the discount. “But I only went away from the bike for five minutes, to buy a coffee and my bike was nicked” is a common cry. They even go as far as lying to the insurer as to where the bike is garaged, sometimes even shipping the bike out to their drum in Spain for months on end, when they told their insurer that their awesome steed was stabled in sleepy Devon. Or they’ll shift post codes, registering their bike at their mum’s address, “Cos it’s well cheaper, mate”. And, that’s before they start complaining and / or trying to pick holes in any pre-condition that the bike be garaged simply, when at home, between certain hours.

Many owners will cut corners, to cut costs but will gladly spank £300 on a trip to Hilltop, having already spent more on a noisy exhaust, rounding it off with £50 for a piece of bent aluminium to ‘protect’ their clutch reservoir, in case the bike falls over in Tesco’s car park. That is before they wrap the panniers in something. Anything else is just a rip-off, mate. Then they’ll proceed to debate with a bored chimp in a call centre, what a modification or alteration from standard is. Then, having wasted that hour or more of their life, they proceed to share their ‘experience’ here to bore everyone else rigid.

Get it out of your head that any motor insurer or, much more likely, their bone idle agents (who you a probably engaging with, via the ‘Quote me cheap’ search engine) is going to spend hours updating their database for every latest device and gadget that gets a ‘Five star’ review from some bod, any more than they’ll take too much notice of some other review when some other bod says, “I opened this Five Star lock with a cocktail stick. It’s shite”.

Have you now given up on your plan to buy your new bike, with a showroom value of more than £20,000?



* The irony about trackers is that, many posters on this forum tell us that they wouldn’t want their baby found after a theft. The reason why? “Cos I don’t let no one ride me bike, other than me”. Some though will buy a secondhand bike, quite happily, as a new one is a rip-off.

 

[JoeBiff]

Ok now the GSA, so this is a new bike……

I had similar years ago with a Hardley, which was a very pricey, shiny new thing to the market at the time.
I just took out HD MoCo insurance - after all, they want to sell their bikes - for the first couple of years. After that, the bike residual value was fuck all, and any dick would insure it.

IMHO, I actually don’t think that’s a bad price you’ve been quoted if I’ve fully understood your first post.


What have you been quoted from BMW?

 

[Mr Bean]

* The irony about trackers is that, many posters on this forum tell us that they wouldn’t want their baby found after a theft. The reason why? “Cos I don’t let no one ride me bike, other than me”. Some though will buy a secondhand bike, quite happily, as a new one is a rip-off.

I would suggest that the vast majority have not lived with the cost of a 'total loss' on their insurance policy.

 

[Yorkshire Twat]

Did you tell company that you 'had retired ' or 'were retired or were 'retiring'. Could be that if you stated you had retired you may be doing more miles and thus a greater risk even if you didn't tell them you would be doing more miles they may presume it.

 

[Neil W]

Did you tell company that you 'had retired ' or 'were retired or were 'retiring'. Could be that if you stated you had retired you may be doing more miles and thus a greater risk even if you didn't tell them you would be doing more miles they may presume it.

When I retired my car policy was due for renewal and the premium went up by 25% from their original quote when I said I was retired so I asked them to requote with it as 'retired police officer ', result it went down by 10% from their quote ????????