STOP! Please step away from the drill

[mikeyboy]

Cheaper to get a new/s/hand sump?.

For those that don’t know,
11xx motors don’t have a separate sump.
Just a l/h and r/h crankcase.
Maybe it would be cheaper to get a used engine,but who knows what you’re buying into.
Most of the work is removing the bike from the engine ,not stripping the engine

 

[Timolgra]

I have a bike which has a badly cock eyed sump plug thread repair which will not seal with any washer, every time I change the oil the threads are cleaned with brake cleaner and I coat that and the washer with TimeBond it's not been a problem over the past 8 years.

 

[solidstate100]

If you have enough clearance, one option I have used in the past (on a Brit bike) is to plug weld the original hole, bore a new hole, weld in a new top hat and drill and tap a new thread .........

 

[mikeyboy]

I have a bike which has a badly cock eyed sump plug thread repair which will not seal with any washer, every time I change the oil the threads are cleaned with brake cleaner and I coat that and the washer with TimeBond it's not been a problem over the past 8 years.

Which is fair enough,
You know about it,and you know how to deal with it and it’s not causing a problem for you.
This bikes owner wants to go off on some big trips,he is prepared to spend a fair chunk to have a repair done that will last and not cause issues again.
From what I could see of the repair with the bike on its side prior to stripping this was the only proper solution,now it’s stripped my view has not changed.

 

[mikeyboy]

If you have enough clearance, one option I have used in the past (on a Brit bike) is to plug weld the original hole, bore a new hole, weld in a new top hat and drill and tap a new thread .........

All well and good,if you are doing the job yourself on your own bike.
In this instance there is no way to drill,weld ,rethread or anything else without the risk of swarf entering the engine.
Where does that leave us if the engine is damaged due to oil contamination?
I would then own someone else’s problem
I don’t think so
Do it right or don’t bother

 

[mikeyboy]

Just to play devils advocate,
If you stripped the sump plug on your engine,gearbox or anything else,
Then took it to your local bike shop or garage and they repaired it in the same way as this had been done,
Would you be happy to have oil dripping all over the shop or would you take it back and expect them to rectify it properly?
I’d love to be a fly on the wall for some of those conversations

 

[Spider]

Not having a pop at anyone, just trying to understand the situation here.

Has the crankcase been totally removed from the engine? so it's completely empty, just the case?

 

[mikeyboy]

Not having a pop at anyone, just trying to understand the situation here.

Has the crankcase been totally removed from the engine? so it's completely empty, just the case?

Yes empty crankcase.

 

[Spider]

So plug welding, drill and tap can be done without swarf contamination. That's the bit I got confused at.

I understand the chap wanting it done properly, but I would have thought, looking at the costings it seems a tad overkill.

How old is the bike, mileage?

Again not looking for a bunfight, but simply gaining info for future reference having in the past bought an old 250n with a pissed sump bolt.

 

[mikeyboy]

The bike is an 04,
Can’t remember mileage.
It’s a big job for sure,but the bike will be sorted for it’s next big trip.

 

[Timolgra]

One of these would sort it surely?

 

[mikeyboy]

One of these would sort it surely?

This is essentially what will be fitted,but,,,,,
Doesn’t remove the fact that the current thread is on the piss and the crankcase is only @10mm thick at the drain point,7threads.
It has already been drilled oversize.
on the inside of the drain hole is an oil baffle ,in order to fit any type of insert this will need to be bored into .
The only way it can be machined accurately is in a vertical mill.
This cannot be done without splitting the motor

 

[mikeyboy]

I think a lot of readers are perhaps missing a very important point here.
Whatever method is used to repair the crankcase it is vital that there is no risk of swarf getting inside the engine.
there is no guarantee of this ,apart from doing the work on a bare crankcase.
If I were to drill and helicoil in situ and engine damage occurred,I would soon find myself in a small claims court facing a very hefty repair bill.
So in some cases(this being one of them)
I’m not prepared to accept the exposure to risk,
So it’s done properly or not at all

 

[Lord Snooty]

I love this stuff, even though most of makes a whooshing noise as it goes over my head Thanks for explanations Mikey.

 

[Timolgra]

I think a lot of readers are perhaps missing a very important point here.
Whatever method is used to repair the crankcase it is vital that there is no risk of swarf getting inside the engine.
there is no guarantee of this ,apart from doing the work on a bare crankcase.
If I were to drill and helicoil in situ and engine damage occurred,I would soon find myself in a small claims court facing a very hefty repair bill.
So in some cases(this being one of them)
I’m not prepared to accept the exposure to risk,
So it’s done properly or not at all

I get that Mikey, in a past life I've had to tap holes into oil galleries on Rolls Royce engines, the trick is very slowly and sticky grease

 

[Spider]

I get that Mikey, in a past life I've had to tap holes into oil galleries on Rolls Royce engines, the trick is very slowly and sticky grease

Done similar, coat thin string in grease and feed it into the case then fill the gap with grease, after drilling and tapping, use a hook to grab the string and pull it back out, never had a probs with swarf. although as the man says, bit tricky drilling a hole that dia without it going seriously sideways.

 

[Timolgra]

Done similar, coat thin string in grease and feed it into the case then fill the gap with grease, after drilling and tapping, use a hook to grab the string and pull it back out, never had a probs with swarf. although as the man says, bit tricky drilling a hole that dia without it going seriously sideways.

Agreed, but using an insert like the one above loctited in doesn't depend on it being perfectly square to the sump.

 

[Spider]

Agreed, but using an insert like the one above loctited in doesn't depend on it being perfectly square to the sump.

Zactley, "Don't force the f**kin thing !...use the hammer" !

 

[Timolgra]

Alternatively an aluminium insert can easily be made to either screw in as above or welded.

 

[mikeyboy]

It’s the oil baffle causing the issue,
Hence the poor initial repair.
It will always push the drill then the tap over.
That’s why it needs bolting to a mill table.
Keeps me out of the pub