Hilltop - is it worth it?

knutk said:

Don't know if I qualify as independent, but here goes.


My readings are performed by a storage-scope and hooked up to the narrowband O2 sensor in my 2015 GSA LC.


This is a typical reading of an uncorrected engine:

You can easily see that the voltage swings between 0.2V to 0.8V. At 3,75 second mark, I blipped the throttle, and you can see it stays at 0.8 V = AFR 14.0.

The voltage values corsponds to the following AFR values:
I've taken the liberty to borrow this picture from Roger 04RTs advrider article:

Reading from this graph, 0.8V = AFR 14.0, 0.2V = AFR 16.0.


This means the engine is running average AFR 14.7 - 15.0, Not extreemly lean, but a bit more fuel will do well.


Here is a graph show the O2 sensor reading when O2 is manipulated:

Blue curve is reading from O2 sensor, while red curve shows the signal sent to BMS by the AF manipulator.

Now the O2 swings between 0.8 to 0.87 V = AFR 14.0 to 13.6.




This is the setting that stopped the tiny vibrations that I could feel when straining the engine at low RPMs, and for this particular bike with this setting fuel consumption has been reduced by 7% even if fuel saving is not the objective.
If I removed the Cat there would be room for even a bit richer mixture, but I intend to keep the stock muffler. Got so freaken tired of the noisy Acra system.

I also run AF-XIED on my F800, and on that bike the consumption did not change.

Click to expand...

Engineer said:

Interesting that you say that BMW bikes run 'nicely rich in the real world' - Hilltop seem to claim that GS runs dangerously lean - are they being disingenuous?

Click to expand...

papasquelch said:

Apparently most bikes run rich in open loop because the manufacturers know that we like to add free flow filters and exhausts, so they need to accommodate this and avoid customer dissatisfaction or litigation if problems occur as a result.

Click to expand...

Alan R said:

I read Hilltop threads with interest and generally, once one gets beyond the trolls, find I am informed and enlightened by some of the technical knowledge.
The above statement stands out as the most unsubstantiated, unprovable, unreliable and wistful thinking pile of crap I’ve ever read on any of the Hillltop threads. We get it, you don’t like Hilltop. Stop. Cease. Desist. Move along. Relax. Be happy.
Alan R

Click to expand...

papasquelch said:

Is this an apocryphal tale, or not?

Hypothetically, just suppose that someone has been creating bike forum identities for years to promote his “remapping” service on many different forums. Suppose this is a long con and over the next year or two he posts 30-50 short, simple comments on other threads to validate himself as a bona fide forum member. Then he starts a thread asking if anyone else thinks that a particular bike has a snatchy throttle or suffers from ‘surging’. Sometimes he asks whether anyone has heard of a place called “Hilltop”. At other times he begins a thread with a full blown testimonial for the amazing transformation from his “remapping” (including the cost and a link to his website!). Bike forum posts of this style and nature don’t exist for any other tuner. Different members on different forums use the same phrases; “he’s a great bloke”, “he knows his stuff”, “Hilltop, they’re the experts” and lately “Hilltop magic”.

Maybe he also chimes in as another forum member he has set up (usually this one has fewer posts) who validates and agrees with the ‘magic’ of his “remapping” service on their bike. Perhaps this is often supplemented with veiled references to BSB bikes, BMW dealership recommendations and pdfs of dyno charts showing (impossible) power gains of 20% or more achieved with only 30-40 minutes between dyno pulls.

Anyone who thinks that nobody would put so much time and effort into this, remember that this hypothetical “tuner” earns £500 an hour for an invisible, undetectable service. In fact it is entirely legitimate to assert that he does nothing at all - nobody can prove otherwise. To make his service completely undetectable in all respects he may also claim that power increases won’t show up on any dyno other than his own!

So, here you have a service that people don’t understand, that they really want to believe works, which ‘apparently everybody else on the internet’ thinks is marvellous, but which nobody can prove exists at all.

Don’t you just love the internet.

Click to expand...

anyoldiron said:

Perhaps it’s time to delete the ‘let’s make Jeff rich’ thread once and for all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

stick said:

True but strangely my BMW dealer (mechanic ) said to me how well my bike rides to all the others he rides and how much better than standard . He has no idea its been done .. go figure

Click to expand...

otruk said:

Seems to me if you've paid the money you are over the moon and if not think its a waste of time. If it works for you fine if you haven't tried it then dont!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

DING-DONG said:

Had my Africa twin DCT Hilltopped, I let the owner of Ktech ride it back to back to compare against his own AT DCT, he was amazed how nice the fuel delivery is and how smooth low down, with a constant strong drive from midrange.

£200 well spent .

Click to expand...